Nathan Gilmour moderates a conversation with David Grubbs and Michial Farmer about Richard Weaver's essay "The Phaedrus and the Nature of Rhetoric." Exploring Weaver's provocative connections between public speech, good and evil, and education, the discussion takes turns into philosophy, education, and all sorts of interesting places. Among the texts and authors we discuss are Richard Weaver, Plato, the Phaedrus, and Derrida.