How Embracing Nervousness and Understanding Human Factors Can Transform Your Deals
In this podcast with negotiation expert Derek Chevalier, we dive into the secrets of mastering negotiations and transforming your approach from amateur to pro. Discover how to leverage your own nervousness to your advantage with the surprising strategy of "rope-a-dope," and learn why understanding the human element in negotiations is crucial for success.
With insights that go beyond mere tactics, Chevalier's advice reveals how to effectively manage complex negotiations, understand the hidden roles of all participants, and craft strategies that make you the master of your negotiation game.
Ready to up your negotiation skills and walk away with better deals? Read on to uncover the key strategies that will give you the upper hand and turn every negotiation into a win.
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You Can Read the Full 'Rope-a-dope' Expert Interview Here:
Darren A. Smith:
Alright, alright. Welcome to the world stickies. Learning my name is Darren Smith and my guest is Derek Chevalier. Now Derek and I were just having a great conversation because I was saying how do you pronounce your surname? And you were telling me it's French and it means nice. Is this right? Wow.
Derrick Chevalier:
OK. Yes, yes, that's it's actually a title, right, a Chevalier or knight.
Darren A. Smith:
You said so much better than me.
Derrick Chevalier:
Ha ha ha.
Darren A. Smith:
And also we were discussing Smith and I was saying how boring it is and I love your surname. I love it, I love it. But let's get down to why we're here. Derek, you're an expert on negotiation. I'm going to ask you a question which will be a little bit tough, but I know you'll take it in the right way. Why should our listeners listen to you when I ask you questions about negotiation? Right. Have you been doing it a while?
Derrick Chevalier:
Ha. I've been doing it awhile and I think the benefits that can come from the experience that I have is that people can transform their interactions with other human beings.
Darren A. Smith:
Nice.
Derrick Chevalier:
It's a process that can be adapted to virtually any element or aspect of both personal and professional life, child rearing to business, yeah.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah, yeah. I mean I always say in negotiation, I can negotiate with anyone. But my kids, you know, they just win. But you know, we both know that.
Derrick Chevalier:
Exactly.
Darren A. Smith:
Now I've got.
Derrick Chevalier:
The younger they are, the more true that is.
Darren A. Smith:
Oh, I want a lolly. I want a lolly. I want a. Oh, come on. You've worn me down. Have 4 lollies, alright? So you and I were talking about this a couple of weeks ago and I said well, let's ask the questions that people are asking on Google, which I've got here. And you said, yeah, you can answer those questions. So that's what we're going to do. We're going to ask you the questions that the folks are mostly asking on Google, like 10,000 hits a month, alright.
Derrick Chevalier:
OK. Sure.
Darren A. Smith:
So let's start with the first one. Nice easy one to get us going. What do you mean by negotiation, that's what the folks are asking.
Derrick Chevalier:
Sure. So it's a formal or informal process of either conflict resolution or problem resolution. Essentially. That's as simple as it is, you know, a process for resolving.
Darren A. Smith:
I like it.
Derrick Chevalier:
Either issues or questions or conflicts.
Darren A. Smith:
Alright, nice. Nice. Alright, nice and simple. For folks watching or listening to this show and they're thinking I can't negotiate. I don't like negotiating and I avoid it. Just a couple of thoughts for them before I move on to our second question.
Derrick Chevalier:
Right, sure. Quick disclaimer, everything that I'll talk about is based upon the proprietary negotiation framework that we use in Harrison Chevalier. So that is actually called CNSUF or snuff negotiating for short, right? So right. So.
Darren A. Smith:
Locked up. Right. Snuff locked it. Yep.
Derrick Chevalier:
If we're looking, go ahead. What was the question again? I wanted to give that disclaimer. Yeah.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cool. So if there's folks out there that are listening or watching and they're thinking, how do I negotiate? I don't like this negotiating thing, isn't it just people who bang their fists on tables? I know it's not, but go on.
Derrick Chevalier:
Yeah. Sure. Right, that's such a great question because I've learned over, especially in the last couple of years. We've done a lot of research and found that people are reluctant to negotiate. And that also a lot of people believe that negotiation can be learned simply through experience. So here's the rub. Whether you want to negotiate or not is a choice, but we are always negotiating because essentially, by the very definition that we just shared. Every interaction with a human being, and if you look at the pundits in Physiology, it's a great book called *The Body Keeps the Score*.
Derrick Chevalier:
We are both negotiating with ourselves, but we are certainly negotiating every situation and every interaction that we're in with other human beings. The question is, are we doing that by osmosis because we are impacted by our sociology, education, the political system that we grow up in, and the institutions we're raised in. So are we doing it on purpose or by mistake? I would say that the difference between a layperson and a professional negotiator is that they're engaged in the same process. One is using a formula as if a cook or a baker would use a recipe and another is doing it by rote memory or by experience.
Darren A. Smith:
Nice. I like that. I like that. I like the recipe metaphor with the cook and the baker. Just come back to *The Body Keeps the Score*. I haven't read that one, but I assume it's on Amazon and blah blah blah. OK.
Derrick Chevalier:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great book that talks about the fact that very much of what and who we are is a part of where we've come from. And that particular book talks a lot about trauma and it talks about the trauma that we experience all the way back into the womb, being a part of our DNA and writing part of the script for who we become.
Darren A. Smith:
OK.
Derrick Chevalier:
And how we handle situations that we're involved in, what memories trigger us into various mental, physical, and physiological states, right. So. That's why somebody can hear a door slam. I was a combat veteran and that's why somebody that's been in an acute situation can hear somebody raise their voice or have a particular tone of voice, speak at a particular pitch or rate and immediately be triggered into a physiology that was part of their upbringing, right? So. That is going to occur when we're interacting with people, which is why it's very important to be mindful of not only what we say, but how we say it to whom we're speaking to.
Darren A. Smith:
In episode 2 that you and I are going to do, I'm going to segue you into that. We're going to talk about you being a combat veteran, but right now I'm going to move on now just for the folks at home. I want to give them a snippet. So we're going to make this some big stuff and some small stuff. When they're in conflict and negotiations, conflicts, it's problem solving, it's getting something resolved. Have you got a small top tip we can give to these guys? And they're like, oh, give me something. Derek, give me something.
Derrick Chevalier:
Alright, that's OK. No, that's fine. Sure. Negotiate people and not problems.
Darren A. Smith:
Oh oh, you've got to expand on that. I love that. Go on.
Derrick Chevalier:
First of all, most people are focused on their wants, their needs, and the desired outcome so.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah.
Derrick Chevalier:
They are focused on the details of the issue, their position versus their counterpart's position. But. We're dealing with human beings, so a lot of you think about chess. Chess is often a great metaphor for negotiation, right? And also sport. Are a great metaphor for negotiation. However, in the snuff framework we talk about well, where isn't chess a good metaphor? Well, here's where it's different in chess than in life. In chess, every chess board, no matter what it's made out of, comes down to 8 squares, 8 down and eight across. We know who the players are, and every player has a prescribed role.
Darren A. Smith:
Good.
Derrick Chevalier:
A role they can only move at certain times. They have particular limitations and no matter where you are in the world, those limitations are the same. There's only been a couple major changes in chess in the last 400 years, so we know what the rules are and we know what the players' positions are. That is not true in life. We don't know who. We may know what their titles are, but we don't know who they are. We don't know what role they're playing in that negotiation.
Darren A. Smith:
Mm hmm.
Derrick Chevalier:
We don't know their limitations in terms of power or capability and we don't have access to the same input that they do. So therefore that human interaction is much more complicated because you want to identify the role, position, and objectives of the person you're interacting with. By contrast, here's sport.
Darren A. Smith:
OK.
Derrick Chevalier:
And this comes down to what we'll talk about a little bit is transactional negotiation. So many people use sports as a metaphor for negotiation. All right, snuff point. What is the difference between life and between sports? That's a big one. In a sports competition, whether it's cricket or tennis or bowling or football or soccer, whatever it is. How many people can see the scoreboard?
Darren A. Smith:
OK, alright.
Derrick Chevalier:
How many?
