EPISODE 44
Kevin Henrikson and Jason Shafton sit down with Jason Fried, co-founder of 37signals, to unpack what it means to build software that feels less like “software” and more like a physical object you actually want to use every day. Jason explains the philosophy behind Fizzy, 37signals’ fresh take on Kanban, and why speed, fluidity, and visual joy aren’t polish but core product decisions. The conversation explores designing with human-scale constraints borrowed from the physical world (like piles on a desk), why limits often produce better tools, and how 37signals stays independent to preserve optionality. They also discuss why 40 hours a week is enough, how founders can stay deeply involved without becoming bottlenecks, and Jason’s advice to new founders: keep your surface area small and start making something real as fast as possible.
CHAPTERS
00:00 – Building software as objects you want to use every day
07:04 – Fizzy and a simpler, more joyful take on Kanban
12:21 – Piles, limits, and designing for human scale
22:03 – 40 hours is enough: founder involvement without micromanagement
43:22 – Undercomplicating year one: keep surface area small and start making
LINKS
Connect with Jason Fried
37signals.com • LinkedIn • X/Twitter
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Connect with Kevin
Connect with Jason
