🔍 Episode Summary:
Is “climate catastrophism” itself a bad idea?
In this episode of Saving the World from Bad Ideas, Mark Lynas is joined by longtime collaborator and eco-modernist thinker Ted Nordhaus, Executive Director of the Breakthrough Institute. Together they take on Bad Idea #21: “We must be climate catastrophists to motivate action.”
Nordhaus — co-author of An Ecomodernist Manifesto — argues that apocalyptic climate narratives have backfired, fuelling political backlash and distracting from the real work of pragmatic, technology-driven decarbonisation. The pair explore what the science actually says about climate risk, why catastrophe is not inevitable, and how prosperity and resilience can coexist with climate action.
It’s a provocative conversation about fear, facts, and the future — one that challenges both denialism and doomerism.
🧠 Topics Discussed:
● 🌡️ What “climate catastrophism” means — and why Ted rejects it
● 📉 Why global emissions are likely to peak soon, and warming is unlikely to exceed 3°C
● 👥 How adaptation, technology, and prosperity have reduced climate vulnerability
● 🌪️ Why deaths from natural disasters are at record lows despite global warming
● 🧭 The limits of single-event attribution studies and the “50x more likely” fallacy
● 🌍 Collapse myths: why population, growth, and decarbonisation trends matter
● 🌳 The Amazon, coral reefs, and what biodiversity loss really means for humans
● 💣 Nuclear war, not climate change, as the real existential threat
● ⚙️ Why geoengineering could cause catastrophe if misused or terminated suddenly
● 🗳️ How climate catastrophism alienated working-class voters and fed political backlash
● ⚛️ Why nuclear and geothermal may be the unsung heroes of decarbonisation
👨🏫 Guest Bio:
Ted Nordhaus is the founder and Executive Director of the Breakthrough Institute, a California-based eco-modernist think tank pioneering pragmatic approaches to climate and energy. He co-authored An Ecomodernist Manifesto (2015) and The Death of Environmentalism (2004), which helped reshape modern environmental thinking. His work focuses on technological innovation, energy systems, and the political economy of decarbonisation.
📚 Recommended Reading & Resources:
● Why I’m No Longer a Climate Catastrophist – Ted Nordhaus (2024)
● An Ecomodernist Manifesto – Ted Nordhaus, Mark Lynas et al.
● The Death of Environmentalism – Ted Nordhaus & Michael Shellenberger
● Climate Endgame – Kemp et al. (PNAS, 2022)
● The Fate of Rome – Kyle Harper
● The Precipice – Toby Ord
● Breakthrough Institute – Official Website
● Mark Lynas & Ted Nordhaus in The Wall Street Journal – “Climate Change Isn’t the End of the World”
● The Cleaning Up Podcast – hosted by Michael Liebreich (related episode)
💬 Quote Highlights
“We don’t need to believe it’s the end of the world to act on climate — we just need to be pragmatic.” — Ted Nordhaus
“The world is getting richer, safer, and more resilient — not more fragile.”
“If you care about climate risk, don’t bet on apocalypse. Bet on human ingenuity.”
“Geoengineering could turn climate change into a real catastrophe — if we start and then stop.”
“The clean energy transition won’t be won by fear. It’ll be won by technology, prosperity, and persistence.”
🌐 About WePlanet
WePlanet is a global citizen and science movement challenging bad ideas and championing evidence-based solutions for climate, nature, and human development. Learn more at https://weplanet.org
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