Imagine if out of the tragedies of these huge fires came insight and opportunity to rethink how we live more in balance with the world and reshape policies that would actually allow us to protect and preserve the natural lands on which we live in a more holistic way…
California’s fire seasons are getting longer, hotter, and more destructive, but what if the problem isn’t “nature gone wild,” but human decisions that turned a fire-adapted landscape into a tinderbox? In this episode of Imagine If Janet Kraus and Victoria Riskin sit down with anthropologist and former Los Padres Hotshot Jordan Thomas, author of When It All Burns: Fighting Fire in a Transformed World, to explore how we got here and what a better relationship with fire could look like.
Drawing on his frontline experience fighting megafires and his research into the history of colonization, logging, and Indigenous fire stewardship, Jordan challenges the idea that wildfires are “natural disasters.” Instead, he shows how specific policies and economic choices have primed forests to burn and how communities can reclaim “good fire” as a tool for resilience.
For Victoria, the conversation is deeply personal. She shares her own story of surviving the 2017 Thomas Fire and Montecito debris flow, and how disaster unexpectedly deepened her sense of community. Together, she, Janet, and Jordan talk about grief, courage, and the kind of clear-eyed hope that comes from taking action, not looking away.
In this episode, you’ll hear:
Why California’s fires feel so different now
How colonization and logging rewired fire-adapted landscapes
The hidden costs of clear-cutting and fire suppression
Life on an elite hotshot crew
Grief, place, and the long tail of fire disasters
Hope vs. naïve optimism vs. despair
“People as technology” for solving the wildfire crisis
Practical pathways to better fire
About our guest
Jordan Thomas is an anthropologist and former member of California’s elite Los Padres Hotshots, one of the U.S. Forest Service’s top wildland firefighting crews. His 2025 book, When It All Burns: Fighting Fire in a Transformed World, was longlisted for the National Book Award for Nonfiction and blends frontline storytelling with a sharp analysis of how colonization, industrial forestry, and climate change created today’s megafires. His writing has appeared in outlets including The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times, and The Drift.
Want to go deeper?
When It All Burns: Fighting Fire in a Transformed World by Jordan Thomas
Jordan’s work and upcoming events: search for “When It All Burns Jordan Thomas” or visit his author site.
Learn about prescribed burn associations and Indigenous-led fire stewardship in your region through local conservation groups, tribal nations, or state forestry agencies.
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