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Dr. Mark E. Shaw interviews CJ McMurry, who is the Founder of The Refuge in Winterset, Iowa, one of the recommended programs highlighted on TAC's residential program page. CJ is one of the many key leaders and a member of the Board of Directors of The Addiction Connection as well as a Commissioned Addictions Biblical Counselor.

CJ shares what he loves about 1 Timothy 1:15-17 and what his passion for addiction ministry looks like now at his local church, Redeemer Church. Not only does Redeemer offer addicts a residential program, but they also gather for weekly GCR (Gospel-Centered Recovery) meetings in which Dr. Shaw's The Heart of Addiction and other quality publications for addiction ministry from a biblical perspective are being used. Find more programming outreach all over the country on this resource page at TAC.

Dr. Shaw and CJ discuss how essential it is to tether all addiction outreach to the local church.

CJ answers the questions: "What makes addiction ministry so hard?" and "Who is qualified to counsel an addict?"