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Epidemiologist Gregg Gonsalves, discusses his recent piece for The Nation America as a “Shining City on a Hill”—and Other Myths to Die By with Sam Goldman. Follow Gregg on Twitter at @gregggonsalves.

More recommended listening on the politics of the pandemic: COVID: A Case Study with Life & Death Stakes: Science, Epistemology, Conspiracy & Fascism

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Music for this episode: Penny the Snitch by Ikebe Shakedown