Legendary episode ahead: Margarita brings on an Anti-Zionist - Jack Leff. Jack is an academic and political organizer who has focused his work and studies on various social justice issues.
To Margarita's knowledge, this is the first full-length interview between a Zionist organization/podcast and an Anti-Zionist. JEW wanna hear this! We discuss all the things you'd expect: the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Follow Jack Leff on Twitter @JRLefftist
What We Discuss
00:00 Intro & Episode Agenda - How Margarita got an Antizionist Jew on her podcast
08:31 How did Jack Leff get on the same News Nation segment as Margarita?
10:48 Who is Jack? His background in ethics, philosophy, & political activism
15:00 Why did Jack support BDS (Boycott, Divest, Sanction Israel)? Path to Anti-Zionism
20:18 On isolating Israel via BDS - what about countries like China or Saudi Arabia?
23:17 How does Jack define Anti-Zionism?
26:56 What is Zionism, then?
31:55 The damage & death toll in Gaza
36:50 Margarita's rebuttal or two cents
39:10 On Jack's participation in Virginia Tech's encampment
44:43 Were the encampments successful in advocating for the Palestinian people?
47:27 On living in our own echo chambers
49:02 Does Jack think there was antisemitism at the protests?
50:42 Does Jack think there is antisemitism on the left?
51:16 "I'm seeing a lot of misinformation on antisemitism." There is still far more antisemitism on the right than on the left
54:30 "AIPAC supports candidates that were at January 6th"
58:20 The Jews are screwed either way - when it's "their problem" vs. "our problem"
1:01:12 How should the Israel/Hamas war end?
1:02:40 On the limitations of the one state solution
1:07:18 "If you want to dismantle Hamas, you cannot engage in war."
1:08:18 Closing Remarks & Guest Nomination
Here are the resources that Jack shared/referred to in the episode:
Jack's letter on antisemitism: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cOdOQXyefs3BCUuwsYco-4Wm7sLrgUjaIWMdD6sMiS0/edit
Lancet article: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext
Jewish Currents article on the ADL: https://jewishcurrents.org/examining-the-adls-antisemitism-audit
Marc Lamont Hill and Mitchell Plitnick's book, Except for Palestine: https://thenewpress.com/books/except-for-palestine
"The source on the claim about iron rods comes from NYT reporting, not B'Tselem, apologies for getting that wrong. I thought B'tselem was the one to broker the interviews but I misremembered": https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/06/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-detention-base.html
Physicians for Human Rights paper: https://www.phr.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/5954_medical_ethics_Report_Eng.pdf
Angela Davis, Freedom is a Constant Struggle: https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/1437-freedom-is-a-constant-struggle
Frantz Fanon, A Dying Colonialism: https://archive.org/details/dyingcolonialism0000fano_b6g9
Howard Zinn, The Zinn Reader: https://www.sevenstories.com/books/3799-the-zinn-reader
Sarah Schulman, Conflict is not Abuse: https://arsenalpulp.com/Books/C/Conflict-Is-Not-Abuse
Human Rights Watch on Apartheid: https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution
Amnesty International on Apartheid: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
B'Tselem on Apartheid: https://www.btselem.org/apartheid
