author and cult expert Mark Laxer talks with Jon about cult education. We tend to see our own culture as normal and reject other people's as cultic. Mark talks about his travels to Indonesia and the notion that some people are 'chaots' - and accept chaos - but many are 'certs' - and demand certainty. Mark and Jon talk about the dangers of believing and certainties and the advantages of accepting chaos. Rajneesh, Paul Theroux, the awful film Holy Smoke and the excellent Kumare are all mentioned.
