In this episode I have a discussion with Matt, who is a vegan and a theology teacher. We discuss our long transitions to veganism, the b12 counterargument among others, beginner's doubts, the main point of veganism as Matt sees it, deontological veganism, deontology vs consequentialism, hierarchical veganism, the possible conflict between veganism and pro-choice, abortion, whether human life has inherent value, the point a fetus becomes unabortable, speciesism and the unique dignity of humanity, why there aren't more conservative vegans, how traditions can be compatible with veganism, whether changes in a tradition come from within or without, whether truth is inherently good, whether existence is inherently good, artificially extending human life, the balance of how to effectively argue for veganism to your friends, abortion again, and Matt's book recommendation.