In this week's episode Max Dashu speaks with Joanna about the chapter dedicated to the runes in her book "Witches and Pagans": her newest book "Deasophy", traditional images to contemplate and color; a broad range of meaning for the word "rune"; runes and ceremonial acts; cliches about the witches have basis in archaeological records; the origins of the word "heathen"; the modern reclamation of the Old Religion; Europe was wilderness; the mystics in the trees; the effect of language on the way we think; historic examples of the magical use of runes; haliorunnae, the women who commune with the ancestors; singing to remember.