Mel, Collin, and Michael start the conversation with the heavy topic of betrayal. What happens to someone after they've been betrayed? What happens to the betrayer? What motivates a person to betray someone else - especially someone they love? Next they talk about making decisions which consider the future and resisting the temptation to be short-sighted. The conversation finishes with a discussion about system changes. When is it appropriate to blame failures on the system rather than the individual? How do you make system changes when it's so easy to cause unforeseen negative consequences?