Leadership/leader development has fallen off the rails in recent years. The relegation of management development, as a side issue, has led to the promotion of leadership and/or leader development. Much of this 'development', however, has been money wasted by organizations intent on the development of 'self-awareness' and 'self-reflection', at the expense of value creating, organization focused leader development. As Jeffrey Pfeffer, a leading guru in this field, has noted, leadership takes place in the 'real' not in the 'abstract'. In this podcast, Taylor and I address some of these issues.