In this broad and wide ranging discussion we explore with Leti Hawthorn the knowledge, skills and attitudes that are needed to be authentically non-judgemental and present with others. Leti shares her journey into interfaith ministry, driven by a recognition of how her own cultural and faith history might limit her ability to show equal compassion; and how much richer her insights and appreciations are with more understanding of other beliefs and worldviews. Leti is an enabler and considers an important part of her role is to support others to engage with the emotional and spiritual, as well as the physical, in their caregiving. Leti is interested in the role of ritual and ceremony in human life and draws on the shamanistic tradition in the idea of holding space with others, or 'rubbing bones' as she calls it. She is someone with a rich spiritual literacy that is not expressed in a religious way and we muse over the metaphor of 'light' as goal or experience in the human condition. Leti describes her respect for people whose beliefs are non-religious and we ponder on the notion of rules and boundaries in religions and finding our 'fit'. We go on to explore how alternative views and perspectives such as hers fit in current models of chaplaincy and recognise that although there is an obvious need for regulation and standards, religious qualifications and a letter from a sponsor do not necessarily guarantee the interpersonal, intuitive and humble qualities that are key to the role. Care also need to be taken not to exclude people, like Leti and Jo, because their routes into chaplaincy might be different. Leti's voice is powerful and persuasive in suggesting how chaplaincy can open up.
