Jamie Fearn is doing a PhD on the intersections between spiritual and bodily pain by exploring with co-researchers how they describe their recovery. This proves fertile ground for our discussion about how we encounter trauma in chaplaincy - physical, emotional, moral and spiritual trauma, to do with current circumstances or to do with events in the past. Jamie shares her knowledge of Hakomi which uses mindfulness as a means for connecting people with their inner and physical experiences, building on the principle of unity and interconnectedness. We share examples from our practice and also consider where the boundaries are between therapy and chaplaincy (or pastoral care) - to do with intention to get to a destination or not? Jamie does not come to pastoral care in mental health services with a theology qualification - her route is secular. Such 'sideways' entries into the chaplaincy team offers important insights and perspectives that can feed directly into our chaplaincy practice. We share a desire to be authentically alongside others or to help them dig into their own experiences to find their explanations and resolutions and Jamie demonstrates clearly how she can add value. Further details about Jamie's research can be found on our Opening Up Chaplaincy Website.