Jon Sherwood talks with author and pastor Karl Vaters, who specializes in helping small churches thrive. In this episode they discuss the concepts in Karl's recent book, "De-Sizing the Church, How Church Growth Became a Science, then an Obsession, and what's Next".
In this episode Jon and Karl discuss the history of the Church Growth Movement and how we got to where we are at today in the church in America. They also talk about the fact that no matter the size of the church, numbers cannot be the only measure of success or failure. Of course this concept isn't new, but it is so difficult to live out, even in Jon and Karl's hearts personally - who are both small church pastors recovering from big church addiction.
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