Garrett Oliver travels the way most people want to, with purpose, curiosity, and a very good palate. In this episode, the Brooklyn Brewery brewmaster and global bon vivant breaks down his Five Rules for Great Traveling. It starts before you even take off. Dress well, take care of yourself, and bring your own sense of hospitality onto the plane. From there, it is about where you land and how you move. Stay close to what matters. Use something as simple as the best baguette in Paris to guide your neighborhood. Spend time in markets, both old and new, to understand how a place actually lives. And when you find somewhere that feels right, go back. Again and again.
What I love about this conversation is how intentional it is. Garrett does not just travel often, he travels well. Every choice has a reason behind it, from what cocktail he packs on a flight to how he chooses a neighborhood to stay in. Talking to someone with that level of experience sharpens your own instincts. It reminds you that great travel is not about checking boxes, it is about paying attention. About building rituals. About knowing what matters to you and using that as your compass. This episode is a reminder that the difference between a good trip and a great one usually comes down to how much thought you put into it before you even leave.
For my latest profile for Fine Dining Lovers, Miles Thompson, the chef and co-owner of Baby Bistro in LA, took me through his three-hundred-and-twenty-six cookbook collection. He talked about the books that inspired him and how they shaped the food he serves today.
Introduction
Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.
I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. It’s always a pleasure when I get to sit down with my friend and world-traveling bon vivant, Garrett Oliver, who is the brewmaster of the Brooklyn Brewery, author of The Brewmaster’s Table, and editor-in-chief of the Oxford Companion to Beer.
He’s here today to share his five rules for great traveling and talks about how knowing where Paris’ best baguette can be your go-to guide for where to stay, how by taking care of yourself on a flight will be the best kickoff to any trip, and that to truly understand any city, you should understand its markets.
As a first-class traveler and a lover of adventure, Garrett’s rules are the best insider insights for anyone who wants to get the most out of going abroad. So let’s get into the rules.
Catching Up
Garrett, it is so good to see you. We’ve had meals together. We’ve had adventures together. And it’s nice to sit down and chat together once again.
It has been too long, my friend. It has been too long. And the last time we saw each other was under circumstances that were a little heavy. So it’s nice to have a little sunshine and chat today.
Indeed. We think of our boy every day. Every day.
Why Travel Matters
For as long as I’ve known you, you have been gallivanting across the globe. What do you love about getting out into the world?
There’s always a new horizon, a new experience. People say to me, how do you get to have this super cool life? And it really is because I know people like yourself. I was watching recently the Star Wars series Endor, and there’s the character, and there’s a code that he’s supposed to give to somebody he’s meeting for a rendezvous. I have friends everywhere.
The booze, food, music mafia that runs worldwide. You can just basically whisper to somebody, I have friends everywhere. And you do. I saw someone asking for Neil’s list in Mexico City yesterday. And the next slide a minute later was, I got it. Don’t worry about it. I’m good. And it keeps getting updated. I think it’s 70 pages now or something. It’s very dense.
Given all your travels and your years at it, was there a moment when you felt like you had gotten mastery of how you like to see the world?
I still have a lot of places that I want to see, but last time I re-upped my global entry, they asked you to name all the countries that you have been in in the last five years. And it turned out that it was 28 or 29, depending upon whether or not you considered the Vatican to be a country.
At a certain point, you’re like, yeah, I know exactly how this is going. I’m James Bond in this situation and I have a way that I do this.
On the other side of that coin, some people might see pro travelers and be intimidated. What do you say to the people who might be afraid to hit the road because they’re not doing it, quote, the right way?
First of all, you will never be sorry about hitting the road to any place cool, especially if there’s people there that you know. I’ve seen so many people who were intimidated, like, oh my God, I’m going to India. And when they got back, they were like, that was the coolest thing I ever did in my entire life.
I left my house. Nothing new is going to happen here. People are like, oh, how can you live in New York? Well, I live in New York because I love living here, partially because I can leave it. That is a luxury for sure, but it’s a luxury that I get to enjoy. So I feel like I’ve earned it.
You’ve definitely earned it, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for great traveling.
Rule #1: Get Dressed
Now, your first two rules talk about the importance of preparing for your trip, starting with the travel itself. What’s your rule number one?
My rule number one is get dressed. I did a thing for New York Magazine for secret strategists on how I’m dressing for an airplane. I personally am never going to feel good if I look like a slob.
You don’t have to get dressed up. It’s not like the 40s, but you should look good. And looking good is actually part of how you bond with the folks who are actually operating the airplane. And they’re going to be a lot nicer to you.
If you’re going to wear sweatpants, go get really good ones. Make sure that they move easily, that whatever you’re wearing is breathable. Bring a pair of slippers. Don’t have your feet messed up in shoes for an eight hour flight. Thermal socks are good for being on the plane with the slippers.
Get dressed, look good, make yourself comfortable.
Rule #2: Uncattle Yourself
Your next rule deals with setting yourself up with some hospitality on your flight. What’s your rule number two?
If you learn only one thing from this podcast, when you’re heading for an airplane, uncattle yourself. Unless you’re in business class or you’re in first class, you will be treated as cattle. They are not making any money on you. They don’t care about you. You must care for yourself.
Rule number one of uncattling yourself is bring your own napkins. Cloth napkins. There’s a reason why in business class and first class, the first thing they do to let you know that you’re being taken care of is they put that big white cloth napkin in front of you. You can do that for yourself, and it makes all the difference in the world.
Bring your own food. You could have a spectacular sandwich. If I’m coming back from France, I go to the charcuterie shop and I’ve got a pâté, small packets of mayonnaise. Very important. I’m going to be good.
Personally, I carry my own cocktails. 100 milliliter spray bottle. Looks like hair tonic. Keep it in the quart baggie. Never been caught. When they go by, I’m like, could I just have a glass of ice? And they’re like, here you go, sir. And as soon as they’re past me, I’m like, dook, dook, dook, dook, dook. And everybody looks up and I’m like, yeah, that’s a cask strength old fashioned. Nothing like a personal tipple at 30,000 feet.
Rule #3: Reside in Proximity
Once you’ve had a great adventure on a plane, knowing where you’re going and where you’re staying is really important. What’s your rule number three?
Rule number three, reside in proximity. Sometimes residing in proximity means you want to be close to the beach. People are like, oh, where do you stay in Paris?
The way I decide has to do with the things that I have to do, where are the metro lines coming in. But the number one way, I look at the last three years of the best baguette in Paris competition. And wherever I get my Airbnb or whatever is going to be within a five minute walk or less of one of the top three winners.
That is the thing that matters to me. You can walk out your front door, you can have a fresh, great baguette, and now you’re golden.
Rule #4: Understand the Markets
Understanding the neighborhood is really important, especially if you want to travel like a local, which includes shopping.
If I want to understand a new country, most parts of the world, there’s some kind of old food market. I want to know what the old food market looks like. I want to know what the flea markets are like. And I also want to go to the supermarket.
When you go to the old market and then you look at the supermarket, you will understand so much of how people in this country spend their time, how they spend their money and what they value.
A good example is France. Some of the best markets in the world, but the supermarkets, they’ve got a lot of frozen food. You have a better understanding of what’s being projected to you, but then what’s actually going on.
When you go to a flea market, you understand things about the past and present of the country. Who’s out there selling things? Are they all from another country? If you go to Belgium, for example, most of the people selling at the flea market will be from Africa. This will speak to a colonial past.
If you go to a flea market in Norway, what you will see is the fact that Norway is now rich but used to be poor. Before they found oil in the 50s or 60s, they were a poor country. So Norwegian antiques, they’re like Soviet antiques.
When you see that stuff, it gives you a deeper understanding of what’s going on in the country. It doesn’t matter where you go. You see what people value.
I go to Japan and I buy really crazy cool old indigo fabric for almost nothing because these things, which are seriously handmade and beautiful, are not really being valued by modern Japanese people.
A lot of these flea markets are at temples. People are not getting up early to go out there. And I’m that guy. I’m going to Japan, I’m like, what are the flea markets that are going to be happening within the time that I’m going to be here? The biggest one at the Oi race course, they have 700 dealers. It’s incredible.
I have made this mistake more than once, not going with the extra empty suitcase. And I’ve had to buy an extra empty suitcase, which thankfully you can also buy at the flea market.
Rule #5: Go Back
Your fifth and final rule deals with something I struggle with all the time when choosing where to travel. How do you justify going back to the places you love again and again?
There is a reason why, in my case, Japan, France, Spain, Italy. I’ve gone to the same town in Italy for at least a week every summer for 25 years.
The way I justify it is that I can go up a mountain, 20 minutes out of Portofino, walk into a restaurant, and everyone comes out of the kitchen to kiss me. You might as well be home. What else could you possibly want?
It’s a matter of balance. You know where I haven’t been, and I hate to admit this, I have never been to Mexico City. People tell me that I’m out of my mind, like it’s going to be my favorite place in the world. I will go to Mexico City this year. I have Niels’ List, but I have not experienced Niels’ List.
I go to Mexico every year, but I go to the beach. I’m not regretting the beach. The beach was really, really nice. There were palm trees over my head for two weeks. I read four books. I regret nothing.
Closing
Garrett, thank you so much for sharing all of your tips about world travel. I’m going to be using the baguette method moving forward.
If people want to follow along with your adventures or see what you’re working on at Brooklyn Brewery, how can they see what you’re up to?
So I’m at iGarrettOliver. One of these days I will discover who, like a million years ago, got Garrett Oliver because there aren’t that many of us in the world.
Garrett, thank you so much. Looking forward to sharing a drink and a bite with you sometime soon. Let’s make it happen.
