In today’s episode, we welcome back Dr. Kate Masur. Dr. Masur is a professor at Northwestern University who specializes in the history of the United States in the 19th century with a primary focus on how Americans grapple with questions on race and equality after the end of slavery in both the north and the south. Her upcoming book Until Justice Be Done: America’s First Civil Rights Movement, from the Revolution to Reconstruction will be published in March of this year.
In our previous episode, Kate walked us through the antebellum period and we ended with a discussion on Abraham Lincoln and how he entered his presidency as a moderate conservative. Today we take it another step further. We take an in-depth look at Lincoln’s views on slavery and his role as commander-in-chief and we end with the discussion of federal power versus states’ rights. Dr. Masur is the perfect guest for this conversation as she helps us remember the most important stories that shaped the racial landscape and tensions with which we wrestle today.
Questions for Clergy and Other Group Leaders
- In our last episode, our conversation ended on the precipice of Civil War. Abraham Lincoln had just been elected. War erupts. How did Lincoln move from his starting point to a policy of abolishing slavery?
- What did enslaved people do during the war?
- What were the Republican Party’s views during the war on abolition and racial equality?
- Describe military service of Black men in the US Army and Navy during the Civil War. How was that significant after the war?
- What were the Confederates themselves fighting for? Was it a war over states' rights or slavery?
Show Notes:
- [1:53] - Dr. Masur hopes that her book Until Justice Be Done: America’s First Civil Rights Movement, from the Revolution to Reconstruction sheds light on a forgotten period of civil rights organizing and pushing for equality.
- [2:37] - In the previous episode, Kate walked us through the Antebellum period and ended with a discussion on Abraham Lincoln characterized as a moderate conservative.
- [3:45] - Lincoln is on record as saying that he was completely opposed to slavery, but Kate points out that he also did not believe that there was anything morally superior in the position of white northerners over white southerners.
- [4:42] - As a strict Constitutionalist, Abraham Lincoln and the Republican party did not believe the federal government had the power to abolish slavery.
- [5:18] - If it is your outlook that you both hate slavery but you don’t see a legal way to abolish it, what do you do? That is how Lincoln entered the presidency. He stated from the start that his intention was to stop the spread of slavery rather than completely abolish it.
- [6:17] - Lincoln put his foot down regarding the discussion of expanding slavery into other states and territories.
- [6:42] - Many Americans thought that the Civil War would be a very quick war. People were predicting that one of two things would happen: the northerners would put down their arms and let the southern states secede or a few quick battles would lead the southern states to give up to avoid more lives lost.
- [7:54] - The war was not over quickly and more and more people were losing their lives. Lincoln comes to conclusion at this point that it is militarily smart to use the power of the president as the commander-in-chief of the US military to declare that slavery is abolished in areas that are in insurrection against the United States.
- [8:36] - The military order Lincoln issued created a force of liberation out of the US Army and Navy in the south. The Emancipation Proclamation also allowed black men to be enlisted as soldiers which really changed the face of the war.
- [9:08] - Some people have argued that Lincoln was dragged kicking and screaming to the point of issuing the Emancipation Proclamation. But Dr. Masur states that it took particular developments in the war for him to use the power of the presidency in the way that he did.
- [11:06] - Kate explains that many enslaved people were following national politics of the time and there is evidence that during the Mexican-American War that many slaves had hoped that soldiers would wind up in their area to liberate slaves.
- [12:33] - Long before the Emancipation Proclamation and the height of the Civil War, many of the enslaved would take refuge over Union lines.
- [14:03] - Dr. Masur explains that the actions of the enslaved actually caused policy dilemmas in the first two years of the war. It wasn’t the job of the government to liberate slaves but would they negotiate with slave owners to return slaves who were taking refuge in northern states?
- [14:57] - In addition to Lincoln and the Emancipation Proclamation, there were also military forces in slave-holding territories, enslaved people taking action to free themselves, and Congress beginning to erode slavery.
- [16:28] - Starting in 1863, black men were able to enlist in the Union Army. Kate explains that they were initially not paid the same and could only be led by white officers, but these rules started to erode over time as well.
- [18:01] - Kate lists many of the changes for the enslaved men who enlisted in the Union Army including the fact that after the war they qualified for veteran pensions, many had become literate, and they could emerge as community leaders.
- [18:59] - Even in the north, the United States Colored Troops were still not recognized for their contribution and Kate states that this is a chapter of our history that is not talked about enough.
- [19:48] - Many Republicans, such as Charles Sumner and Thaddeus Stevens had grown annoyed with Lincoln and were pushing him to do more.
- [20:35] - Dr. Masur writes about this in her upcoming book and she explains here that there was a lot of debate in different realms regarding the future of racial equality. She provides examples of how these debates impacted major decisions.
- [22:18] - Republicans wanted to create a federal policy to outlaw discrimination in the states. They did not want to leave it up to the states to decide what black men could or couldn’t do.
- [23:27] - There is no doubt that what the Confederacy was fighting for was the preservation of slavery and we only need to go and look at what the Confederates themselves said to see that. Kate gives examples to prove their motivation.
- [24:54] - To the extent that states’ rights were part of their fight, Confederates were only concerned with their rights to own slaves and expand slavery north.
- [26:11] - Not all white southerners were slave owners and the Confederates had some convincing to do in their home states as well.
- [27:04] - The worry for Confederates was always that increased federal power would end up being a threat to slavery. Even northerners believed in state sovereignty, but white slaveholders used the argument of state rights to protect slavery.
- [28:15] - In his memoirs, Jefferson Davis shifts the focus of the southern states involvement in the Civil War away from preserving the constructs of slavery to the fight for states’ rights. Kate then says this was a distraction from their true motivation and this idea was then handed down to later generations of Americans.
- [29:03] - This is a good point to pause and in our next episode, we will welcome back Dr. Kate Masur to continue our conversation. We will shift to critical developments in the last third of the 19th century that shaped our racial topography.
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