In this episode, we discuss further concepts related to Hinduism. We present some more fundamental concepts in addition to those covered in Episode-1 that are important to an understanding of Hinduism. A knowledge of the basic framework will help us raise confident young Hindus.
Show Notes
0:03 Recap of Episode 1 and notes
2:36: Linear vs Cyclical Concept of Time
5:44: Seekers vs Believers
10:01: Ashramas of Life
15:09: Oneness and Divine Presence in Everything
21:13: The Hindu Rituals
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Transcript
[0:03] Rekha: Namaste. Welcome to another edition of the Hindu parenting podcast. Today Shalini and I will outline for you part 2 of “What it means to be a Hindu”. Before we start that, let's just make a couple of clarifications. The first point is, we discussed that a Hindu temple is also called a mandira, or a devalaya, which translates to the home of the deity. So this is a very important concept for us to know. Because in most faiths, the place of worship is a place that people congregate in and perhaps hear a sermon and get together to pray. But in Hinduism, that temple is the home of the deity. This is something that kids need to know. The second point is about the purusharthas. It is to be understood that artha and kama are the primary purusharthas that we deal with in today's world; artha meaning the desire for power and wealth/money, kama being the desire for pleasure. Artha, and kama always go together, and they are to be bounded by the principle called dharma. So these are just a couple of things that I wanted to clarify. Shalini any more points?
[1:27] Shalini: I think there are a couple more things that I wanted to say. One, that what we are discussing here are topics which are not in any order of importance, nor are they in any chronological order, we are just discussing them as they come to us. Okay, then the other point that I wanted to say was that it is important to discuss these concepts, because these form the philosophical basis for Hinduism, and we believe that starting with this is just like starting to construct a house. When you construct a house, you always build the foundations first, and then only you build the superstructure. So the foundation is what actually stays below the ground, is a bit unglamorous, but it's a stable base, without which you cannot build a superstructure. So what we are discussing here is akin to discussing the foundations of Hinduism, which will then lead us to topics of everyday concern and everyday value for all of us to help us navigate everyday life. So I think these two things, was something that I wanted to say. So Rekha, I think we can just start now and we will delve into the concepts one by one, the ones which we have lined up for today.
[2:36] Rekha: Today, let's start with something that most kids will find very fascinating. This is the concept of time. Time, as we commonly understand today is linear in nature, I mean, time by itself has no specific principle. It's just the way that we look at it. So the way we understand it today is fully linear, which means it has a past, present and future which does not repeat over and over again. But looking back, it's very intuitive to know that what we observe in nature is cyclical all the time: the seasons repeat, the phases of Moon repeat, day and night repeats. So, this is something that was noticed in most or almost all ancient cultures, including in Hinduism. So the Hindu conception of time is cyclical, it is also known as the kala chakra, chakra meaning a wheel. So we often refer to it as the Wheel of Time. So it starts with the srishti which the Western mind understands as creation, but we refer to it as srishti. It starts with srishti, then there is sustenance of the srishti and it ends with something called the pralaya. And then this cycle of time repeats over and over again. And time is divided into large and small units, large units, like the kalpa, the manvantaras, and the yugas, the chatur yugas are something that you find a reference to…the yugas in almost all the literature of Hinduism, like the puranas and the itihasas; they all refer to this cyclic dimension of time. So this is something that is a fascinating study by itself and is definitely of great interest to everybody. So Shalini, anything more you'd like to add to this?
[4:37] Shalini: Well, perhaps we can look at it as you know, best elaborated with an example. So if you look at the the cycle of a plant, it grows from the seed. So the seed carries all the lifeforce, it grows from the seed, it becomes a plant, it becomes a tree, it flowers, it fruits, and then it sort of decays and goes back into the ground in the seed form. So the lifeforce is then again, coming back through a new seed. Similarly for us, we conceptualize time also in the same fashion. So there is potent form in the form of a single unity, there is an expansion and then again there's a contraction and then starts the cycle all over again. So, I think, yeah, it summarizes what we think about how time operates. So, moving on, I think we should look at the concept of Hindus being seekers rather than believers. So how would we go about explaining that Rekha?
[5:44] Rekha: Most faiths mandate some sort of a belief system. This is where Hinduism is quite different from everything else that we know. Here the importance… there's a lot of importance is given to seeking and finding your answers, which means that the dichotomy of religion versus science is not something that Hinduism is very concerned about, because there is a natural inclination to seeking here and this is actually beautifully brought out in the oldest scripture, which is called the Rig Veda. And there is the Nasadiya Sukta in the 10th Mandala of the Rig Veda, which discusses how srishti came to be, you know… from where… how has this srishti happened? What happened before that, what was life? When did life start and what happened at the earliest time of srishti.
“So who can say what happened then;
do the gods themselves know what happened;
does the person, or the entity who created this srishti know what happened?
Or how this whole beautiful universe came about?
Does he know or maybe even he does not know!”
This is the ending of the Nasadiya Sukta. So you can right away see from this, that there is no mandate, there is nothing that HAS to be believed. And if you do not believe that you cannot function as a Hindu. We are open to scientifically seeking answers.
[7:17] Shalini: So this experience, I think is wonderful, yeah, that is correct. Because this, the Nasadiya Sukta is, I think, very, very profound, you know, and I think culture, which tells people to believe, will never write words like this, because they are all words of a seeker, you know, when you're even saying
“even he knows, or maybe does not know”
which means you are questioning even the divine as a creator. That can come only from a culture of seeking, not from a culture of believing. I think, also, there's another facet, which helps us understand that we are a culture of seekers. For the longest time, I think, until the 15th century, or something like that, somewhere in the middle, middle ages, it was believed by most of the West that the earth is flat. However, our oldest description of the Earth is as a spherical entity, not a flat entity. So we have always known that the earth or any of the planetary bodies are more or less spherical in shape, you know, and not flat. So this, I think, also comes from a lot of seeking, questioning and demanding answers and looking for them, which testifies to our culture being one of seeking rather than believing, don't you agree?
[8:37] Rekha: Absolutely. And we all know what happened to Copernicus and Galileo; such stories of persecution for differences from the accepted viewpoint are almost not heard of at all in Hindu history or culture. We have a system of… we have had, which is sadly not so well known now, but we have had a system of open debates. And there are many famous debates that are examples of, you know, questioning, seeking, of this entire spirit that our culture is defined by. So yes, this is something I think we should all be proud of.
[9:23] Shalini: …And our art of debating where scholars debated on practically every issue under the sun. So we have always been a culture of questioning and seeking answers rather than blind belief. Though, ironically, we are called as a culture that is, you know, into blind beliefs, superstition and the like, which I think is not at all warranted, given the long history of debate and discussion and, you know, seeking that has happened in this civilization.
[10:01] Rekha: This is a great point. Absolutely and we all need to understand this and also make sure our kids understand it. So that anything that is thrown at them can be answered you know. Kids need to have an understanding of what our culture is, what it was all about, because a lot of it is not understood today. And many Hindus today like to describe themselves as spiritual but not religious. So we will examine this towards the end of the program when we come to rituals. But before that, let's talk about ashramas. The Hindu is familiar, most Hindus are familiar with the ashrama system, or at least the names that are given to the four stages of life. First being the Brahmacharya which covers student life. Brahmacharya just means seeking or proceeding in the direction of finding Brahman. So this refers to specifically the student part of life where young children and adolescents are encouraged to study and to build up skills that will then serve them well for the next phase of life, which is called Grihasta, gruha meaning home. So Grihasta refers to the phase of life that we all are in. It is the householder phase of life where you have kids, and you are responsible for the older generation, the younger generation, the responsibilities are high, and this is supposed to form the backbone of society. So this is considered the most important ashrama of the four ashramas in Hinduism.
The third one is the Vanaprastha, which is common among older people whose children have grown up. They've handed over their responsibilities to their children, and they're slowly detaching themselves from the worldly life and moving into a secluded forest dwelling life where they then begin to focus on their own internal sadhana. The fourth ashrama is called sannyasa, which is of very little relevance today, I think, with hardly anybody reaching that stage. But what's interesting is that all the four ashramas that have been conceptualized so long ago, are pretty much unchanged. And, you know, this is what you see in the world around you today, the student life and then the householder, and then slowly detaching yourself from responsibilities, which, again, is a bit of a gray area today. Any comments on that Shalini?
[12:43] Shalini: Yeah, I think, today, vanaprastha does not have the same significance as in older times. I think because the concept of Hindu seeking moksha, has somehow taken a backseat. Now, vanaprastha, I think, was designed because every Hindu in older times was expected to strive to attain moksha. So vanaprastha was supposed to be sort of the preparing ground for the seeking, seeking answers from within. And sannyasa was the stage where one actually reached or attempted to reach the divine. And this was true for everybody. But I think, over time, these two stages of life have become a little more diluted, and perhaps not possible for everybody. But we do think that, you know, if people are inclined to do this, we could do with some upping of the spiritual quotient of current society, you know, so, if there are people who are keen to pursue the path of moksha, they should actually follow the vanaprastha and sannyasa stages. It would be nice if some people started to adopt these two stages more seriously.
[14:08] Rekha: Shalini I think here, perhaps, you know, in ancient times itself, people have thought about the friction between the older generation and the younger generation. And so when the older generation hands off responsibilities to the adult children, and you know, detaches from worldly life, it is a kind of green signal for the current grihastas to take over and that lessens conflict also, in many ways.
[14:41] Shalini: That’s absolutely true. Yeah, I think our our ancestors actually, you know, conceptualized things after a lot of deliberation, and there was nothing offhand or random about any of the things that Hinduism stands for. Yeah. So I think we shall move on.
[15:04] Rekha: and talk about the divine presence in everything?
[15:09] Shalini: Yes, yes, we shall do that. So Hindu thought, believes that everyone and everything is absolutely divine. So we consider that all of srishti is a manifestation of the One single, divine essence, you know, and this encompasses not just animate, but inanimate objects too. So, the difference being in the levels of consciousness that an inanimate object has, and that which a living being or an animate entity has. Also, even in the animate world, there is levels of consciousness from lower to higher, and at present man is the highest form that is there. However, Hinduism does not, does not say that evolution stops with man. We think that it is also possible to go higher, and that's why we have the concept of moksha. So that is, I think, where we conceptualize everything as divine. And we also understand that it's not easy to reach this, or transcend ourselves - that it's not an easy task. And therefore, we have multiplicity of paths to attain this. We believe that all paths essentially lead to the One divine, and this is often repeated, you know, the statement from our Upanishads, Ekam Sat Viprah Bahuda Vadanti, which means that multiple paths lead to the same goal. So, we do believe in that, but there might be something that we want to probably dissect over here and say that while all paths do ultimately lead to the One, it is also important that the paths have to be in consonance with dharma. Adharmic paths need not necessarily lead to the One goal. So any any further things that you'd like to add Rekha?
[17:12] Rekha: No, I like the point that you mentioned, that adharmic paths and dharmic paths do have a difference. And in modern times, the average Hindu is quite confused about this. So, this is something that we will be addressing, especially while teaching kids because it's a beautiful concept in itself, but the way we apply it, you know, has to be very carefully thought out. When when we talk about the divine presence in everything, this is a good point of time to mention that the Hindu view of nature, no the way we respect every tattva or element in nature, rivers are given the form of river goddesses you know, there is there are many elements in nature that we treat as sacred. And it all boils down to this feeling of a divine presence in every one and everything, I think this is a principle that animates our existence and you know, it is carried down into everything that a Hindu does or thinks in daily life. So, yes, this is absolutely important principle to know.
[18:34] Shalini: And perhaps, I think, making nature and it's tattvas all divine, prevents us from messing around with nature too much. We know that imbalance created in nature or of any element will mean that whole of srishti will have to bear consequences. So, this very, very tight bond between cause and effect, I think deters us from exploiting nature ruthlessly, no? Or at least until until recent times, this kept us from degrading nature, like we see happening elsewhere, Considering that probably the landmass that we call India has had the highest dense density of population for all times, we have been one of the least polluters, least rapacious in terms of exploiting the environment till recent times, and that could not have happened if we did not imbue the sacred element with nature. So, I think that's very important that associating sacredness with anything acts as a natural deterrent to exploitation.
[20:07] Rekha: This is beautiful. And at some point, it gives kids a great deal of perspective, to know that this is not true of just Hinduism but of many original ancient cultures in the world. We are the only surviving ancient culture really, but this principle of finding the sacred in every element of nature, has been around for a long time. And if you look at many ancient cultures, you see this all across the board, and it's something that maybe I'm sure kids will find fascinating to explore on their own, to come up with examples.
[20:53] Shalini: Yeah, sure, sure. So now let's move on to rituals, because all that we have discussed so far, are the concepts and now we'll see how they come into our life on a practical level. So, Rekha, please explain to us about rituals and their significance,
[21:13] Rekha: The much maligned ritual of Hinduism! It’s interesting that rituals have a very important place in Hinduism, and of late Hindus have become a little bit defensive about this, because we have lost a lot of the understanding of the basics behind rituals. Rituals are mainly performative. And of all the concepts that we have discussed, you know, some of the principles that of Hinduism that we have discussed so far, all of them flow down into our everyday life as the Hindu ritual. A Hindu ritual is very aesthetic, it's beautiful to look at, think of the Ganga Aarti you know, something, it engages all your senses, it has a special function of its own. A ritual in everyday life is gives you a sense of predictability, of discipline. And to that extent, small rituals keep children really grounded and on the right path, I would say, because, interestingly, recent studies in Harvard Business Review have referred to the power of ritual. Of course, they were not talking about the Hindu ritual, they were talking about a sense of ritual created, new rituals being created. And modern life has learned to think of Friday night popcorn and movie as the ritual too. But when we as a culture have so many rituals that are of specific significance of you know, which ties to our culture, and which bring out its essence, which have been going on for 1000s and 1000s of years, and which we know are also tied to seasons, and are good for us in so many ways, then we would really be foolish to throw that away and adopt something very new, because I think it's been proven that ritual is very good for the human brain right now. So I think this is the Hindu ritual that is so important for us to follow and not just throw it away.
[23:31] Shalini: Yeah, that is absolutely true. So we have really come to almost close to despising any sort of ritual, especially when connected to Hinduism. It's all brushed off as being backward, being not at all in touch, in tune with the times. But it's really much maligned. I agree completely.
So I think we have discussed some of the main concepts and there might be more and we might delve into other concepts in some future episodes if we feel the need. We hope that you have all liked to listen to us, have been able to get some takeaways from our conversation. Please do come back for another edition in about a fortnight's time.
[24:30] Rekha: And I just a quick thing here. Yes, yes. I think while raising children, we need to keep all these principles, because a lot of things we will be talking about specifically, even current events. When you think about looking at them through a Hindu lens, these are the principles that we will be referring to again and again. So it really helps us as parents to keep these in the back of our minds. And when kids are on on the defensive as Hindu kids, you know very often in the world today, they don't know what they have to say, you know, what they can say in answer to some of the things thrown at them. So, a well conceived worldview exists. And just keeping this in your mind will help you to help children see what it means to be a Hindu and also to answer the questions that they are often faced with in today's world. So this is a small point I wanted to make.
[25:40] Shalini: Yeah, so in the next episode, we will be covering the festival of Sankranti. So we look forward to having you all with us one more time in a fortnight, and there's nothing more currently. So, we will say Namaste and see you in a fortnight.
