A quarter of the way through the year, a quarter of the way through the century. On a recent visit to Australia, I had the opportunity for another in-person meeting with Peter Chambers. In the conversation, we explore the difficulty of defending the shabby status quo, disappointment and distaste with what ‘really existing’ unipolarity was, and the disorientation that comes with a world of 8 billion people in which much of what matters is now happening outside and beyond the US and the West.