EPISODE OVERVIEW
Hosts Shelley and Jeni explore the complex emotions and societal pressures surrounding aging as middle-aged mothers.
From concerns about being mistaken for grandmothers to the pressure of maintaining a youthful appearance, they discuss how Western culture treats aging women differently than men, the anti-aging industry’s influence, and their desire to model self-acceptance for their daughters while grappling with their own fears.
KEY TOPICS:
· Fear of being perceived as grandmothers rather than mothers
· The relationship between gray hair, aging, and societal value
· Distinctions in how aging is viewed between genders
· Anti-aging industry pressures and marketing to women
· Balancing self-acceptance with cultural beauty standards
· Perimenopause and menopause while raising young children
· Modeling healthy attitudes about aging for daughters
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
[00:00:00 - 00:03:00] The “Baby Number Two” Question and Age DisclosureJeni shares how people at work frequently ask about a second child without knowing she’s 45. When she discloses her age and mentions being “too old,” she’s often met with surprise and compliments about not looking her age. This fuels anxiety about maintaining a youthful appearance so her daughter won’t face questions like “is that your grandma?” The hosts acknowledge hearing these perspectives from teenagers in the previous episode.
[00:03:00 - 00:07:00] What’s Wrong With Being a Grandma?When Shelley questions why being mistaken for a grandma is so distressing, Jeni honestly admits it’s because “grandmas are closer to death than moms.” The conversation explores whether it’s about societal roles and perceived value rather than actual grandmothers themselves. They discuss how in Western culture, unlike multi-generational households in other cultures, grandmothers aren’t seen as primary caregivers who do the daily work of raising children. The hosts realize they don’t want to be misrepresented in their actual role as mothers doing all the “sweat, blood and tears” work of parenting.
[00:07:00 - 00:11:00] The Gray Hair QuestionThe hosts dive into why they color their hair. Shelley’s mother still colors her hair at 80, continuing the silent and boomer generation tradition. Jeni shares how she started coloring her hair after postpartum hair loss grew back gray, but also admits to feeling pressure at work when video lighting highlighted her gray temple. She acknowledges watching beautiful gray hair transformations on social media yet still feeling she’s “not ready” for gray hair. The hosts wonder if maintaining non-gray hair subconsciously represents having the energy to keep up with young children.
[00:11:00 - 00:16:00] Distinguished Men vs. Desexualized WomenThe conversation highlights the stark double standard: Jeni’s husband gets complimented on how “distinguished” his gray hair makes him look, while women with gray hair are desexualized and associated with being less energetic or capable. They reference how actors like Matt Damon and The Rock continue making action films while aging, facing no pressure to maintain youthful appearances. Shelley recalls someone once asking if her daughter was her granddaughter, triggering an uncharacteristic feeling of rage. Jeni shares openly delighting when her daughter calls her “mommy” in public to establish her role to onlookers.
[00:16:00 - 00:20:00] The Panic-Induced Skincare SplurgeJeni confesses to a moment of panic when examining her face in a magnifying mirror, leading to a frantic trip to a department store where she spent a ridiculous amount on anti-aging skincare products. She admits nothing has changed except her skin feels more hydrated. The hosts discuss how the entire anti-aging industry markets almost exclusively to women, with stores like Ulta and Sephora built around these products. Meanwhile, men like Jeni’s husband can enjoy the benefits without facing any societal pressure to use them. They recognize this pressure represents fear of being rejected or ostracized from society when they’re no longer deemed “useful.”
[00:20:00 - 00:25:00] Fertility, Value, and The Handmaid’s TaleThe conversation touches on how youth and fertility are equated with a woman’s value in Western society. Jeni shares her painful struggle with infertility and feeling “less than” because she couldn’t do “the one thing my body was supposed to be able to do.” They discuss how men can reproduce essentially forever while women face strict biological timelines, reinforcing gendered ideas about purpose and value. Shelley notes that during perimenopause and menopause, women experience concrete physical changes like brain fog, joint pain, sleep issues, and energy changes, yet are often dismissed or not taken seriously while still raising young children.
[00:25:00 - 00:30:00] Belts, Periods, and Staying CurrentJeni shares a formative memory of getting her period at her grandmother’s house around age 11-12. When her grandmother asked a store clerk for “belts” (the old method of attaching pads before adhesive), Jeni was mortified and confused. Years later, she worries about becoming similarly out of touch with her daughter’s generation. The hosts compare this to how their mothers never discussed menstruation, while they’re committed to open conversations about periods, hormone replacement therapy, and menopause without shame. They reject the “hush hush” approach and want to normalize these conversations for their daughters.
[00:30:00 - 00:33:00] The Cognitive Dissonance of “Do as I Say, Not as I Do”Shelley articulates the central tension: they’re talking about wanting their daughters to value themselves beyond appearance while simultaneously fearing judgment about their own gray hair and wrinkles. There’s awareness of the real consequences including discrimination in hiring, healthcare inequality, and negative social interactions for older women. Jeni admits “I refuse to do as I say, not as I do” and wonders if she needs to stop dyeing her hair so her daughter knows it’s okay. The hosts acknowledge it’s okay to hold conflicting feelings and recognize they’ve internalized cultural standards while wanting something different for their daughters.
[00:33:00 - 00:36:00] Boy Moms, Community, and No RegretsThe hosts realize all their close middle-aged mom friends have daughters, prompting curiosity about whether boy moms internalize these aging concerns differently. They invite listeners to share their perspectives. Despite all the pressures and fears discussed, both hosts enthusiastically agree they wouldn’t do anything differently and love being middle-aged moms. They appreciate the shared experiences of their community and the validation of knowing they’re not alone in these feelings.
THE AGING DOUBLE STANDARD
For Women:
· Gray hair signals being “old,” lacking energy, or nearing death
· Anti-aging industry built entirely around female consumers
· Desexualized and devalued as they age
· Face discrimination in hiring and healthcare
· Expected to maintain youthful appearance while raising young children
· Dismissed when experiencing perimenopause/menopause symptoms
· Value tied to fertility and reproductive capacity
For Men:
· Gray hair makes them look “distinguished” and “sexy”
· No societal pressure to use anti-aging products
· Continue thriving in careers and romantic roles while aging
· Can reproduce throughout most of their lifespan
· Not judged for having children at older ages
The Stakes:
Women internalize these cultural messages even while wanting to model body acceptance for their daughters, creating painful cognitive dissonance between their values and their fears.
THE GRANDMOTHER QUESTION
Why Being Mistaken for Grandma Feels Threatening:
· Associated with being closer to death in the lifecycle
· Perceived as less important or valuable than mothers in Western culture
· Grandmother role doesn’t include daily caregiving in modern families
· Fears losing recognition for the actual work of motherhood
· Concern about having less time with children
Cultural Context:
Unlike multi-generational households in other cultures where grandmothers are central caregivers, Western society positions grandmothers as peripheral figures who visit occasionally rather than shape children’s daily lives and values.
KEY QUOTES
“Truthfully, because grandmas are closer to death than moms... that’s probably the root of my fear. I want to trick my body and hack my body into living as long as I can because I want as many moments with my daughter as I can have.” -- Jeni
“Is it because if I’m the grandma, I’m not as valuable to her? Grandmas don’t see you that often and moms, they shape you and they raise you and they keep your values. So when you were just talking, I’m wondering if it’s for us, we don’t wanna be seen as the grandma because we’re not as important to our children and we are doing all the work.” -- Shelley
“No one has ever said those words to a woman with gray hair that I know of. ‘Oh, you look so distinguished.’ Men look distinguished and sexy and romantic, and women actually are the opposite. We are desexualized.” -- Jeni
“I refuse to do as I say, not as I do. I refuse to parent that way. I guess I’m gonna stop dyeing my hair. I don’t want my daughter to feel like she has to do that.” -- Jeni
PRACTICAL TAKEAWAYS
For Middle-Aged Mothers:
· Recognize that holding conflicting feelings about aging is normal and okay
· Understand the real societal consequences (hiring discrimination, healthcare inequality) aren’t just fears
· Question which beauty standards you’re following for yourself vs. for external approval
· Consider what messages your choices send to your daughters about aging and value
· Connect with other middle-aged mothers to combat isolation and normalize these struggles
· Advocate for yourself during perimenopause/menopause rather than suffering silently
For Partners and Support Systems:
· Recognize the unique double standards aging women face compared to aging men
· Understand pressures around appearance aren’t vanity but responses to real discrimination
· Support open conversations about menopause and hormone replacement therapy
· Be aware that middle-aged mothers may be navigating perimenopause while raising young children
· Acknowledge the cognitive dissonance between wanting self-acceptance and fearing societal rejection
For Everyone:
· Question why we value youth and fertility as measures of women’s worth
· Challenge the assumption that gray hair or wrinkles equal less energy or capability
· Examine how the anti-aging industry profits from women’s fears
· Consider how multi-generational households in other cultures view aging differently
· Normalize conversations about periods, menopause, and aging without shame
· Recognize that being mistaken for the wrong generation is about role misidentification, not insult
RESOURCES MENTIONED
Previous Episodes Referenced:
· Episode 6: Teen perspectives on having older parents
· Episode 5: Sherry’s discussion of multi-generational parenting and cultural support systems
Topics for Future Episodes:
· Boy moms’ perspectives on aging concerns
· Infertility and middle-aged motherhood
CALL TO ACTION
· Share this episode with middle-aged mothers struggling with aging anxieties
· Email your perspective if you’re a boy mom: do these concerns resonate differently?
· Subscribe and leave reviews to expand the conversation about aging and motherhood
· Reach out if you’d like to be interviewed about your experience as a middle-aged mom
· Email: middleagedmamadramapodcast@gmail.com
Remember: Our community is stronger and better because you are in it. You belong here exactly as you are.
