A decade of Trump has had us parsing the difference between shock and surprise (as in, we’re constantly shocked, but never surprised). We talk about the ‘move fast and break things’ model of Elon Musk and the tech bros who are tearing through the federal administrative state. We consider different ways it could go—what it means to have a nonfunctioning government, what causes things to slide towards true catastrophe (like civil war or sectarian violence), and what stops from going that far.
Note to listeners: At one point in this episode, we talk about Caitlyn Jenner and remember the iconic Wheaties box of our childhood, and we accidentally misgender her. Apologies!
Mentioned in this episode
Ezra Klein and his eponymous Show
Secondhand Time by Svetlana Alexievich — An oral history of the end of the soviet era, a collection of transcribed interviews.
Marc Andreessen on Making Sense with Sam Harris, and on Matter of Opinion with Ross Douthat
