OL for Sunday, 8-24-25 Meeting summary
Our Open Lines program began with members of our Advisory Board in the Zoom meeting on casual conversation about the upcoming Starship test 10 flight. The group then explored various space-related topics including more Starship test flights, SpaceX, lunar landing architectures, and NASA's Artemis program, while also discussing the importance of public communication about space exploration and its potential benefits. The conversation ended with discussions about scientific discoveries, upcoming shows featuring space policy experts, and an art showing by Dr. Kothari, along with additional updates about the upcoming Starship launch.
Our pre-program conversation ended with David announcing upcoming Space Show programs, including a discussion with Dr. Namrata Goswami about national security and the Chinese space program, and a potential interview with Greta, an emeritus professor from Yale who has a new thesis about the extinction of dinosaurs. Space Show program participants included Marshall Martin, John Jossy, Rick Kwan, Michael Listner, John Hunt, and Dr. A.J. Kothari.
We started the actual meeting by talking about the upcoming Starship test flight (it was postponed), with Marshall estimating a 60% chance of success. They debated how success should be measured, with John Jossy noting that while not blowing up is a success, completing a good percentage of experiments is also important. Rick and Marshall discussed the transition from version 2 to version 3 of Starship, with Marshall noting that the main upgrade is replacing Raptor 2 engines with Raptor 3 engines. The group also touched on the challenges of keeping the dry weight low while maximizing payload capacity for Mars missions. They concluded that a failed test would likely have a cascading effect on schedules, particularly for Artemis, but that SpaceX has the financial resources to continue development.
The group discussed the number of test flights needed for SpaceX's Starship, with Marshall suggesting 11 flights based on his spreadsheet analysis. They debated the risks of betting on the Artemis program's timeline to beat China to the moon, with John Hunt and David expressing concerns about the current infrastructure and delays. Rick noted that Chinese technology is rapidly improving, potentially making it harder to catch up. The discussion concluded with David suggesting that Congress might not be as motivated to play catch-up with China as previous generations were with the Soviets.
In addition, we discussed potential lunar landing and return architectures, with Marshall proposing to use Dragon in the nose of a Starship for moon landings, though Dr. Kothari pointed out that Dragon lacks sufficient delta-V for lunar takeoff. Ajay raised concerns about the need for NRHO operations to continue despite budget constraints, while Marshall suggested repurposing Starship as a moon base by tilting it and connecting to future Starships, which would create a legal claim on the moon. The discussion concluded with John Jossy noting that current law mandates continued use of SLS, Orion, and Gateway through Artemis 5, suggesting any architectural changes would need legislative approval.
The group discussed NASA's Artemis program and leadership challenges. David expressed concerns about the lack of full-time NASA leadership and the need for better communication to the general public about space exploration's importance. Michael Listner suggested that a permanent NASA administrator might not be necessary and that the current political situation would likely remain unchanged for the foreseeable future. The group agreed to attend a special Space Show program with Mike Gold on August 28th to further discuss these issues.
The group discussed the importance of both informing the public and conducting scientific/engineering work in space. Rick presented three key space manufacturing opportunities: pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, and fiber optics, noting progress through NASA's InSpace program led by Lynn Harper. They explored the potential for quantum computing in space, particularly on the moon where cooler temperatures would enable more efficient operation, and discussed the O'Neilian dream of moving heavy manufacturing into space to address environmental concerns. The conversation concluded with a discussion about the intersection of quantum computing and artificial intelligence, though concerns were raised about whether these technical advancements would resonate with the general public.
Together we talked about the benefits of space research and its potential to improve lives through medical advancements, such as 3D printing of organs and artificial tissues, which could address critical shortages in organ transplants. They emphasized the importance of effectively communicating these benefits to the public, suggesting that focusing on current achievements and practical applications, rather than overhyping future possibilities, would help gain public support for space exploration. Marshall highlighted the economic potential of Starlink, predicting significant revenue that could fund future space endeavors, while Michael and others stressed the need to highlight existing technologies and their impact on daily life to engage the public. A few of our participants said to be careful not to promise too much. We had a brief discussion about that potential problem.
David discussed the potential of space and low gravity environments to advance medical research, particularly in gene therapy for diseases like cystic fibrosis. He emphasized that while solutions to medical problems likely already exist, the challenge is accessing and implementing them, which requires funding and conducive environments. Rick raised concerns about the prioritization of NASA's budget for exploratory missions versus other technologies like stem cell research. David argued that a great nation can pursue multiple goals simultaneously. Marshall highlighted the role of the U.S. military and Space Force in space exploration and security, suggesting they could be a viable second source for dual-purpose initiatives. John Jossy shifted the discussion to focus on accomplishments and ongoing projects in space exploration.
Some of our participants spoke to several scientific discoveries, including a landmark study on the universe's early galaxies from the James Webb Space Telescope and the discovery of super-hot spring strings that may account for dark matter. John Hunt shared updates about anomalous materials found at Skinwalker Ranch, which are being analyzed by a team of scientists, though no peer-reviewed paper has been published yet. The conversation ended with a reminder about upcoming Zoom shows, including one with Dr. Goswami on Tuesday evening.
We closed by promoting an upcoming special show on Thursday at 12:30 PM West Coast time featuring Mike Gold discussing space policy and commerce. Marshall predicted that space commerce could become a significant source of income in the next 5-10 years, addressing the economic challenges of space projects. Ajay announced an art showing in Fairfax, Virginia on September 20th, featuring his work "The Abstraction of Mind from the Mind of a Rocket Scientist." The group also discussed the Starship launch for later today, with John Jossy noting that Elon Musk's update would likely be broadcast before the launch at 4 PM their time.
Don’t forget that you can see the Zoom video of this program and hear the audio archive at doctorspace.substack.com.
Special thanks to our sponsors:Northrup Grumman, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Helix Space in Luxembourg, Celestis Memorial Spaceflights, Astrox Corporation, Dr. Haym Benaroya of Rutgers University, The Space Settlement Progress Blog by John Jossy, The Atlantis Project, and Artless Entertainment
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Upcoming Programs:
Broadcast 4422: ZOOM PROGRAM: Dr. Namrata Goswami | Tuesday 26 Aug 2025 700PM PT
Guests: Dr. Namrata Goswami
ZOOM: National security space, China space and more
Broadcast 4423: Hotel Mars with Eric Berger | Wednesday 27 Aug 2025 930AM PT
Guests: John Batchelor, Dr. David Livingston, Eric Berger
Starship report, Artemis and more from Ars Technica
Broadcast 4424: VIA ZOOM Mike Gold of Redwire returns | Thursday 28 Aug 2025 1230PM PT
Guests: Mike Gold
Via Zoom: Commercial space, policy, investing and lots more with Mike Gold of Redwire
Sunday, August 31, No show for long Labor Day Weekend Holiday | Sunday 31 Aug 2025 1200PM PT
Guests: Dr. David Livingston
No show for long Labor Day Weekend Holiday
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