“History Doesn't Repeat Itself, but It Often Rhymes” – Mark Twain
We are in a time when it is so easy to feel like how we show up is not enough. It is what we are hearing in our community outside of this podcast.
In our conversations with friends outside of the podcast, we’ve both been circling around the fact that in this time we inhabit together, no one feels like what they are doing is enough. So in this conversation, we discuss that very thing. What IS enough? How do we acknowledge feelings of guilt so we can get out of our own way to do the work we are meant to do here and now?
You’ll hear a lot of grappling and a lot of hopeless deep breaths in this episode. You’ll also hear plenty of promise, focused intention, and clarity. If you’re anything like us and the friends we are close to, you’re also on this rollercoaster ride. The world is on fire, what can I do?
This conversation inspired us to continue it as a series because we believe we are spiraling around to the “same old problems” but with a new set of tools. And to be explicitly clear, these conversations stand on a common ground of our belief in democracy. We should all participate in local elections, call our representatives when something matters to us, and lift up a neighbor in need in any big or small way as we are able. And then to take one brave leap further: how can I step into this world with a deep understanding of what is mine to contribute? In the coming months, we will invite friends from all walks of life to discuss this with us. Through these conversations, we hope to evoke the same spirit of engaged Buddhism; a spirit of focused and joyful participation.
As Becky so wisely says, “you can’t have hierarchy in a circle.”
"When the crowded Vietnamese refugee boats met with storms or pirates, if everyone panicked, all would be lost. But if even one person on the boat remained calm and centered, it was enough. They showed the way for everyone to survive." — Thich Nhat Hanh
Episode Transcript
Christina: You like the way that you spoke about it today was so much more embodied. And um, through you as you, you know, it was beautiful. I loved talking to you about that today. And I also noticed when it came up, I was like, “yes, Becky”. Um, and what else was I gonna say? Oh yeah. The seeds and the growing and all of that, I completely agree with. This has been a beautiful experience and I’m so ready to continue it with you.
Becky: Welcome to Noticing: A Podcast About Nothing And Everything At The Same Time. We are in a time when it is so easy to feel like how we show up is not enough. And that’s what we’ve been hearing from our friends and our community outside of this podcast. And we’ve both been circling around the fact that in this time we inhabit together,
no one feels like what they’re doing is enough. So in this conversation, we discussed that very thing. What is enough? How do we acknowledge feelings of guilt so that we can get out of our own way to do the work that we’re meant to do here and now? So in this episode, you’ll hear a lot of grappling and a lot of hopeless deep breaths.
You’ll also hear plenty of promise, focused intention, and clarity. If you’re anything like us and the friends we are close to, you’re also on this rollercoaster ride. The world is on fire, so what can we do? This conversation inspired us to continue it as a series because we believe we are spiraling around to the same old problems.
But with a new set of tools. And to be explicitly clear, these conversations stand on a common ground of our belief in democracy. And how democracy demands our participation. In voting, especially in primaries and local elections, calling our representatives and being informed of what’s happening in our community and our nation.
That is the foundation. Then to take one brave leap further, how can I step into this world with a deep understanding of what is mine to contribute? So in the coming months, we will invite friends from all walks of life to discuss this with us. Through these conversations, we hope to invoke the same spirit of engaged Buddhism, a spirit of focused and joyful participation.
So I hope you enjoy.
Christina: Hi.
Becky: Hi is a good background.
Christina: It’s pretty enchanting.
Becky: Mm-hmm. Where to start today.
Christina: I know. Um,
Yeah. Yeah. So when we, we actually decided ahead of this conversation today, and on the heels of the last conversation that we had, about awakening and what that sort of looked like for both of us. And then we ended up realizing that the idea of the awakening process, which is like an uh, of never ending sort of active word, um, is that you
find a home in yourself as you are, and you accept that, and then step into community as that. So for me to realize that I am not a composter and you are, is actually in service of, of everything, I believe. Um, so we were thinking about that and we were thinking, you know, it might be really nice to, um, continue talking about that.
And there is a reality right now in my state of Maine, where ICE is is everywhere in Portland. There are signup sheets going around for anyone whose skin looks like mine and yours. To sign up to go shop and deliver necessary items to families who are sheltering in place because all of their immigration lawyers are telling them not to leave their homes.
Because the literal color of your skin makes you a target, which is, um, something that is hard to understand for me, and I’m seeing it, I’m seeing friends post videos of blowing whistles when they see ice agents playing music outside of their hotels. Um, and it feels, uh, more important than ever for me to recognize the things that I can bring to the table in order to help in a time of great disruption and turmoil And, um.
A time when I believe our worst nature is on, on the headlines all the time. You know? Um, so it was interesting for this to, um this experience, this like so close to Homeness, to be happening now on the heels of our last conversation. So it feels really important to just sort of address things as they are.
Um, and I guess that would be where, how I would start, you know? Yeah. I, yeah. So I’m sitting with that.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Um, and one of the things that I am consciously doing, and you are a part of, we talk about this a lot, is seeding the world that we want to inhabit. Mm-hmm. Um, one of the things that I am actively doing as someone who is a conscious gardener.
In the more metaphorical sense. Um, I am providing a place in my studio for a very small group of people who I admire and want to be in deep community with. You are one of them. Um, and there are 1, 2, 3, 4 others at the moment. Um, so a very intentionally intimate gathering of people who can hold uh, a quality of presence together where we can amplify our greatest gifts and assist each other in doing so by using our own gifts. And it was kind of amazing because, we have, I have one friend that I invited and she had, she recognized, which, which is so beautiful. She recognized that actually it’s not it, it’s like coming around at the wrong time for her. So she, uh, made the brave decision of acknowledging the reality in front of her, realizing that she’s actually already spread too thin and can’t, uh, inhabit this container that, that I am consciously seeding.
And, and it’s like, there’s, there’s nothing good or bad about it. It’s just what? It’s um,
Becky: I think it’s sacred. I think it’s a sacred, no, you know, it’s, it’s a sacred nos. Yeah. It’s so powerful to honor our no.
Christina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And the only reason that I can actually provide this quality of time and space in, in this studio is because I have honored sacred nos for the last two years.
Mm-hmm. I think, um, and. Yeah, it, it’s just like this, this time in the, in our world I believe calls for us all to use the pause, use a true pause in which we reflect on what our answer truly is before we rush to answer or rush to protest or rush to sign up for things. Um, because there is a great, great, great need right now, 10 miles from my house, and what am I cut out to provide where I’m actually doing the deepest service, um, where I’m actually doing the deepest service and acknowledging what that honestly is, um, is really uncomfortable.
Becky: What makes it uncomfortable.
Christina: It’s just like, I would love to be able to be out on the streets whistling at ice, protesting, um, going and shopping for all of these people. I want to do all of those things. Mm-hmm. So it’s uncomfortable to realize that I can’t.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: It hurts.
Becky: That’s, yeah, I mean, I feel the discomfort as well.
I just wanted to hear specifically what was coming up for you. ‘cause it is really uncomfortable and what was, hitting me as you were speaking is it’s, it’s such a wild time to be alive and we are constantly bombarded with, not bombarded. We are exposed to, we have access to, which is a double-edged sword, like the access to
what’s going on in the world beyond our little circles. Um, especially if you seek it out and, and try to get outside of your social media bubble to expand your awareness is incredible. You know, and it can provide fuel for such growth. And, and, all I can think about is our poor nervous systems. You know, we’re presented with such great existential threat on a daily basis. Like save our democracy, you know, and our, um, save and our neighbors save our democracy and save our neighbors, you know?
And when you’re perpetually online, your neighbors become the whole country, depending on how much you expand it your neighbors become the whole world, and when they’re in threat and you’re seeing that threat, your nervous system is processing it the same as if there’s a lion standing right in front of you and you have to do something about it, you know, and I think it’s just really distorting our clarity on what wise action is for each individual person, because if you think the entire world is in danger and your nervous system is processing that as yours to fix. Because it’s a lion standing right in front of you and your nervous system is saying, fight, flight, freeze, or fawn for the whole world,
Christina: right.
Becky: You are more prone to shut down and do nothing because any small action that you take feels insignificant to what you’re seeing on your phone as the threat, right? Mm-hmm. It’s like you have this 10 foot tall lion standing in front of you and all you have is a tiny pebble, and you’re like, how I, this can do nothing.
You know? And, and obviously, you know, this is my lens because I teach people about the nervous system, like this is my obsession. I’m not saying, you know, this is the only lens to look at this, but as I was really reflecting on what is my highest service. Um, it’s, can I teach as many people as possible to regulate their nervous system and take that pebble?
And
I’ve lost the metaphor.
Christina: I was like, where’s the pebble gonna go? I can’t wait to,
Becky: metaphors are not my jam. Um, although I always try. I love a metaphor. That’s good. But so like this discomfort that you’re feeling, right?
Christina: Yeah.
Becky: That you want to be doing all these, all the things, right?
Christina: Of course.
Becky: And you, like you were sharing before we got on that you were going to your neighbor’s house and shoveling their snow.
Mm-hmm.
That’s huge. That’s being in community, you know, you doing whatever you can for your community. I think that is the highest service, you know,
Christina: a thousand percent. And, and I have no doubt that I am a good community member.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: I really do. I, I believe that I am, I feel it every day. Um, even down to like the gratefulness that I feel for the things that exist or that I have or that I see other people having.
There are so many, like at a cellular level, I believe that I am showing up in the way that I can because I’m showing up honestly and fully to all the things that I’m showing up for. Mm-hmm. And still. It’s hard when something comes, you know, they always say like, start at a local level. Mm-hmm. Well, at a local level there is horror happening in Yeah.
A local, in my local community, not directly in my town, but in one, two towns over. Um, and where my husband works as a first responder, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, so even, even as I’m talking about this now, actually, he was dreading going to work this week because of the threat of ice coming and now the reality of ice here.
Um, so even providing a loving container with a family that loves each other and can support his nervous system regulation alongside of him also supporting his own mm-hmm. Is a service. To the community that’s in unrest, right?
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Um,
Becky: well it’s that, um, you point to this a lot. Uh, I think it comes from Thích Nhất Hạnh where he talks about one steady presence in a boat.
When the boat is,
Christina: you taught me that, Becky,
Becky: did I really? Yeah.
Christina: Go for it. You taught me this and I use it all the time.
Becky: I don’t remember.
Christina: I love it so much.
Becky: I’m not the best storyteller, which is why I probably defer to you a lot here. ‘cause you were a amazing storyteller.
But yeah, when you’re, when you’re on a boat and the boat starts rocking, it only takes one steady presence to keep the boat from flipping, you know, from peace and steadiness ripples out. And so yeah, just being that steady nervous system, that steady presence in whatever action you’re taking ripples out more than you would ever realize.
You know? Um, and I just, this, I, I don’t know if I’ve said this on the podcast before, but this probably not, ‘cause we haven’t really talked much about this administration, but I remember hearing Steve Bannon talking about their strategy for this administration in the first administration. And they literally called it flood the system.
And they meant in the context of flooding the news cycle, flooding the courts. and if you look at kind of the history of this person, um, that’s what he’s kind of done the whole time, you know, bombarding people with lawsuits and, um. And when I heard that flood the system, I thought about the nervous system and I think thought, what is this doing to all of our nervous systems being constantly bombarded by horrible headline after horrible headline, after horrible headline.
And, um, and I am not, I want to say clearly and upfront, the answer isn’t to bury your head in the sand. The answer is not to look away, it’s to regulate. Meaning like, how much can I take in, how can I take this in? As silly as it sounds, there’s this woman on TikTok, um, the Amanda’s Mild takes and she, she does it like, kind of funny, and she does Donald Trump’s ls for the week every week.
And she goes back and like says, you know, the headlines give us the scary stuff, but they never follow up and tell us like. Oh, the courts fought back on this, you know, they reversed this. Oh, he failed on this. You only hear the big scary headline. And it’s, it’s not like I’m not saying it’s like some evil tactic, but fear sells.
Fear activates us. Fear gets us to pay attention. And in a an attention economy where the incentives around money are tied to our eyeballs and tied to our attention, anything you’re incentivized for, you’re going to get really good at getting that.
Um. Perfecting your craft. So you’re incentivized more and more, right? Mm-hmm. And unfortunately, because of this system that we’ve kind of morphed into, they’re incentivized to trigger us, to trigger us into fear and anxiety. ‘cause that gets us to pay attention. You know, if they show us lion after lion after lion, we’re going to click, we’re going to pay attention, we’re going to engage, we’re going to doom scroll.
We’re probably going to try to self-soothe through consuming by buying things, by, you know, eating more than we should. And so we’re kind of trapped in this cycle of, rewarding the system with the exact thing it wants, which is our activation and our, our attention. Um, and I just know deeply from my own journey and my own growth, that when I am in activation, I don’t make clear decisions.
Mm-hmm. I can’t connect with my authentic choices. I’m just reacting from my past programming to keep me safe to, to get as much distance from that lion as possible. And a lot of times getting that distance manifests in othering, othering other people. Because you wanna find someone to blame, right? You wanna like, who?
Let the lion out. Let’s find them and, and blame them. I think I’ve taken this metaphor as far as I can.
Christina: I love it.
Um, I, I think about when I, when I think about fear now, I have been learning to reorient myself often, and it helps so much. And, and if you think about fear, the opposite energy to fear is, is love and love is such, or this is at least what I believe.
Love is such a, a powerful tool and energy to be in. And yet, I mean, you know more about the nervous system than I do, but like, it’s easier to be spun out in fear than it is to be spun out in love. And so it takes an honest and consistent recalibration to the energy of, of love versus fear. Um, that’s, that’s something that I do all day long actually.
Yeah. Like what can I find in this situation to, to love or to pour love into, um. And I mean, this administration makes that a very challenging task.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: Um, yeah. And still it’s something I’m exercising consciously all the time.
Becky: Yeah, it is, it is an exercise, it’s a practice I keep reflecting on. Um, I really like to zoom out as much as possible, especially when I’m feeling afraid or I’m feeling activated.
Activated. Activated. Yeah. Um, and try to make some sense of what’s happening right now because history is cyclical. The more you can zoom out, the more you can gain a perspective of maybe you haven’t been here before, but we collectively have been not exactly here, you know, history never repeats. what’s the saying?
And I can’t remember who says it. I’ll look it up, but it’s history doesn’t repeat itself, but it rhymes.
Christina: Oh, I’ve never heard that before.
Becky: Yeah. And I like to think of the evolution of, of human evolution as a spiral. You know, so we’re, we’re kind of coming back to the same place, but from an expanded awareness.
Christina: Yeah.
Becky: And I keep getting this message and maybe it’s just, uh, me reflecting on my own growth and where I am, and I’m seeing patterns in the collective. So I don’t know if this is universal, but. What keeps coming up is this invitation to grow up. And I don’t mean in like the, you’re being a child grow up, I mean in a literal, moving from adolescence into adulthood, um, because we have literal children leading us for those, not on YouTube, I did air quotes.
Um, like these are not emotionally intelligent, fully formed individuals that are leading our collective system. They’re just not, um, there’s not an emotional maturity. These are not the people I would look to and call elders if we were a tribe, right?
Christina: No.
Becky: Yeah. So. I just keep feeling like this could be an invitation for anyone who’s interested in, in the invitation.
Like there’s no one coming to save us. There’s no like benevolent leader that’s going to come in and fix all the problems. And I think maybe we’re being invited into, um, those times are over. Like that’s kind of child, that’s a little immature as a society to think there will be one person to come and save us like a parent.
Right? Like, we want our leaders to be our parents and take care of us, which makes total sense. You know, we are a very, we’re a young country, you know? Mm-hmm. These. I’m not saying this in any kind of derogatory way, I’m just reflecting on could this be an invitation for us as a society to mature, um, and start realizing that we have to save ourselves?
Like how are we going to reorient our communities where we have the power and we’re not like, that’s too much to put on one person or even a handful of people in power to solve all of our problems. Hmm. So I think maybe we had to see it get this bad to realize we’ve given up too much of our power. Yeah.
And I mean this in the collective, we, I’m not, and may again, maybe this is just me reflecting on my own life and my own growth and doing what human brains do and looking for patterns in the outside world. So, um, but that’s what I keep reflecting on and just thinking about.
Christina: Yeah. I also was thinking too about your, what we talked about in the last episode, which was, um, inter being mm-hmm.
And interconnectedness. Um, the, the sooner more of us understand that, the better. Yeah. Right. Like I just, I, uh, I’m like seeing these ice agents who feel just like thugs and I’m seeing them, um. Take children.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: And I wonder like, how, how do you not see all children in that child? How do you not see yourself in that child?
How do you not see your children if you are a parent in that child? it’s, it’s so strange to me that in these times, people, human beings have the capacity to remove their humanity for a time to like, follow orders.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: That’s a hard thing to, to watch. Um, because the interconnectedness of, of all of us, um, is such a, is such a beautiful teacher.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: Um, and I, I wish. Everyone knew it.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Just do like, where’s Mr. Rogers right now?
Becky: Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. We all need Mr. Rogers. I mean, unfortunately, at least in this country, um, the message we’ve been fed is not of interconnectedness, it’s of individuality.
Christina: I know.
Becky: You know, and American exceptionalism, that feeds into this mental construct of a hierarchy, you know? Right. And you can’t have hierarchy at the same time as interconnectedness.
Christina: Yeah. I guess you’re right.
Becky: You can’t have hierarchy in a circle.
Christina: Mm,
Becky: no.
And I keep coming back to how our brains are wired for belonging. So if you’ve grown up in this lineage of programming that the individual’s superior, that there’s a hierarchy, um, that there are certain races that are good and certain races that are not your brain like to think something different, your brain and your nervous system will likely convince you that that different thought, even if it’s bending towards love and connection, is dangerous.
And it will threaten your belonging. It will threaten your belonging to your family of origin and. Again, these brains, these nervous systems were designed 10,000 years ago when getting kicked out of your tribe meant , literal death. You know? Mm-hmm. So that belonging is really important to these tribal brains that we have.
Christina: Yeah.
Becky: I have learned that when I don’t have the presence to notice when I’m activated, when I don’t exercise choice to regulate my nervous system, to come to a place of safety in my body, when I don’t feel safe in my body mm-hmm. I’m not making the loving choices. I’m making the choice that I’m not making a choice.
My tribal brain has taken over and it’s gonna do everything to keep me safe.
Christina: Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Um, well, I just, when we started this conversation, we were thinking like, how, how are we metabolizing the reality in front of us as ourselves, right? Mm-hmm. And so I’ve said so far that I’m. Providing this container for a small group of people. Um, you know, I’m also just like resourcing myself as much as I can, checking in on people and just being a general good community member.
Um, and not over exerting myself. Also, fascinatingly enough, a lot of my work is go, my artwork is finding homes in places of healing right now.
Becky: Hmm.
Christina: Which is something I’m in a zoomed out view noticing is happening and I love that.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: Um, yeah. So that, that’s happening, which I, which is wonderful. Um, but, you know, there are these things that I’m consciously doing and probably a lot of things that I’m unconsciously doing.
Um, and I wonder, . What are you, what are you feeling is calling to you for showing up in your communities and your world as, as Becky?
Becky: Yeah, it’s interesting because in our last episode, you know, we were talking about
the genocide and Gaza activating and, and awakening these parts of myself and, um, the way I think I’m, I’ve been reflecting on that a lot lately because my reaction to that, as we talked about a little bit last time was. Just like rage posting on social media and trying to convince everyone to share my opinion.
Um, and then I had to get some distance and get some perspective. And I, I think that is, that reaction is a good example for me of not aligning the action with who I am, you know, and just like trying to do something which, hey, I’m it, I had to do something. It was, you know, it was a start. Yeah. Um, but in retrospect, I’m questioning how much impact that had and is that the deepest impact?
And also. The more people who speak out about atrocities, the safer it makes everyone else who’s speaking out. So speaking out, even if it’s as clumsy as I was doing it on social media, is important. Speaking clearly about what’s happening right now, even if it’s clumsy, is important. The more people on the streets, the safer everyone is on the streets, you know, especially as, as white people, you know, because we do have a privilege that other people, it’s, it’s still dangerous to put your body on the line no matter what your, your skin tone looks like.
But it is safer, sadly. Um, so, you know, it’s the, I do. I’d honestly say my biggest contribution naturally is through boycotting, like paying attention to what to boycott and being mindful with where we put our money. Um, ooh. You know what’s into, I’m gonna name it. I’m noticing some, some activation asking me, ask with the question, what am I doing?
There’s some act It wasn’t meant for that. No, no, no. It’s not about,
no, it’s it, I’m naming it because I, it’s in me and it could be in other people. That activation of I’m not doing enough. Yes. I’m not doing enough. Yeah. Like, I’m feeling it real time and I’m feeling myself. I’m feeling this, you know, reactive part of my brain wanting to justify what am I doing?
Am I doing enough?
Yeah.
So I just wanted to pause and name it because I was feeling it. Um, ‘cause to be completely honest, I think the biggest impact I can have right now is, you know, my offering to the world is these tools that I’ve been gifted, that have changed my life and have given me the capacity to see the world clearly and to move through the world differently.
And my highest service is sharing these tools with as many people as possible who are called to it. Right. And in the most authentic way. So, and that’s where the activation comes because there, there was a, there was a part of me that was judging. That’s so selfish, Becky. Like, that’s so selfish. Your greatest contribution is going to, is to build your own business.
Like how selfish, like that was that part that was real quiet but was coming in and, and kind of making me talk about other things instead of the thing that I really feel is the deepest contribution I can make. And even if, even if that circle is smaller, I think the the ripples are deeper.
Christina: Yeah. Because it’s real.
Becky: Yeah.
Christina: Like what you’re, what you are noticing as your greatest service right now. That’s real. Even if it’s like, I, I, I feel so deeply your activation. It’s, I’m feeling it every day in real time here. Um, every, every video I see of someone filming someone getting taken into a unmarked car, and I’m, I, I want to be there to like shower.
This is what I wanna do to shower these ice agents in like, as much possible loving kindness as I can. That’s where I wanna be. I don’t, I wouldn’t be the person being like, fuck you, you’re a monster. That is not my role and that anger that other people have, I love that some people can do that and express it, but, um, that is not, that is not where I would go.
I might like, stand quietly by and close my eyes and watch them showered in light. Mm-hmm. Or, you know,
Becky: yeah. And, and
Christina: that’s tiny, tiny quote, unquote tiny, but it’s not. Yeah. But
Becky: I, I, so I’ve been thinking about this a lot. I don’t, I was writing something and the word battle came up, like, we’re in this battle.
I’ve been in this habit lately of looking up the, the actual definition of words to just kind of like reframe and reorient and, and I looked it up and the first definition is, it’s like the gist is a meeting of opposing forces and the subsequent definitions are like armed conflict and whatever.
But, but I really took the essence of that. It’s the meeting of opposing forces. And so it is very clear that the people who are, these ice agents who are kidnapping children
Christina: Yeah.
Becky: Are leading with hate.
Christina: Yes.
Becky: And the opposing force of hate is not hate it. It is love.
Christina: It is.
Becky: And it doesn’t feel enough. It doesn’t, because we’re used to a world where we use phrases like fight fire with fire.
And like, as your firefighter husband would point out that you don’t fight fire. You don’t fight fire with fire. But we, these are phrases, right, that we have, and it’s so, you know, preemptive strike, you know, we’re going to preemptively blow up our neighbors before they blow us up. Meeting fire with fire, hitting a bullet.
With a bullet, you know,
Christina: even telling someone they’re doing a good job and saying, you, you’re killing it.
Becky: Yeah. Mm-hmm. What? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it may, that’s the, the like critical part, you know, that was programmed in you at some point that it’s not enough or it’s tiny to. Shower ice agents with love. And I would say that’s a, that’s a powerful, um, rebellious act.
Christina: Right. And, and to me, I don’t think I would’ve been able to have that thought thought without routine, quiet and the ability to pause and zoom out Yep. And realize like, these are people, these are people. Yeah. Yeah. They are acting in a way that I find to be deeply negative. Mm-hmm. And traumatizing. And I disagree with every fiber of my being.
And still stay soft. Stay peaceful. Yeah. Stay loving. Um,
Becky: I will s just add in one thing that I feel compelled to say. Hmm. I am saying this from a place of safety, you know, if someone has their boot on your neck. I will never criticize or judge how you get that person’s foot off your neck.
So I am not saying that there isn’t a place for meeting oppression with force. Mm-hmm. I, I just wanna be clear on that. You know, I, but if you are in a place of safety and you ha you don’t have someone’s boot on your neck thinking about how can I fight back then love is what I choose.
Christina: Yeah. Yes. And I say all of this realizing that that’s where, that’s where the, um.
That’s where a lot of the difficulty comes into is recognizing that I can provide myself with routine silence. Mm-hmm. I can provide myself with the pulled backness because I’m, I’m safe.
Becky: Yeah. Which, that, that is a privilege you were born into. So in my training we did, um, in my mindfulness training, there was an emphasis on, um, I think it was their, their attempt at doing engaged Buddhism where we, we had a module on, um, racism in mindfulness communities and they actually split it up so that they had white people with white people and, um, Black, brown and indigenous people within their own, their own circles, which I actually thought was really, um, supportive because we could have these really nuanced conversations without imposing on, you know, people of color to like, explain anything to us.
So I thought it was really thoughtfully done. It was actually the only reason I chose this program because they had such an emphasis on addressing racial inequalities and, and oppression. So in these conversations. We were talking about, privilege and, and, um, this guilt that white people can, can hold.
And I’m not saying you weren’t naming guilt, but I know I’ve dealt with it.
Christina: Yeah, I feel it.
Becky: Yeah. And I’ve finally come to, like, we’ve talked about th you know, through you as you, whatever wants to come through. We didn’t choose to be born in privilege, but we are. So how can we use that privilege? So the fact that you have access to, um, quiet to safety, you know, you have your needs met, what can you do with that privilege?
You know? And I think pretending that you’re not in safety and like choosing something else, um, diminishes the power you have in that privilege and the guilt. Guilt is, I can’t remember who said this, um, but they were talking about guilt as an emotion. And guilt as an emotion is actually really informative.
It can, it can give you information, but when you’re guided by guilt, that does nothing. You know? Yeah. So it’s like feel, oh, I feel guilty. Okay, I feel guilty ‘cause I have this privilege. I think what often happens is we don’t really want to feel that guilt. I think this happens a, with a lot of uncomfortable emotions, myself included.
We don’t wanna really feel them. Or we’re not capable of really feeling them, so we wanna push it away. And the way we push away emotions is we project it onto other people and we project it onto the world. Um, so I think if anyone’s out there, and this is a message to myself, if you feel guilt for your privilege or for not doing enough, or whatever, really feel it.
Like really let yourself feel it to the extent that your nervous system is capable so that you don’t get overwhelmed by it, but you can let it move through you and come back to safety and then see what message it gives you.
Christina: Yeah. That’s
Becky: beautiful. And it could be that the message is showering ice with love.
Christina: Mm-hmm.
Becky: And then trust that. Trust that that’s enough.
Christina: Exactly. Trust that and hear it and know it. Don’t try to explain it away. It’s just like all these other things that we talk about. That’s, um, yeah, I mean, like I’ve cultivated a practice in this silence of being able to hear what I would call my soul like I’m in, I’m in conversation with that and, um, and I can reach it pretty quickly.
And it’s, it’s just nice to remember that that’s always there because in times where things are spinning around in front of you, it’s easy to forget. Even as someone who has lots of practices to, um, continue reorienting myself.
Becky: Mm-hmm. Um, I think the reorienting, anytime you have an opportunity is really powerful.
And what was coming up for me was, um, Joanna Macy, and she taught me about deep time, you know, so because our, our little lives are short and fragile but these cycles of time are long. And we forget when we’re being the wave of our individual self, we forget that we have the entire ocean, that we are interconnected with, um, across space and across time.
Mm-hmm. So that’s why zooming out really helps me to reorient. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. And find some perspective. It’s all, it’s all urgent and scary and demands our attention and it’s a tiny blip in time depending on how far you zoom out. So if you can hold both, I, I am a double Gemini. I hold paradox. This is, so, maybe this isn’t universal, but I know for myself when I can hold that paradox of it’s extremely important and it’s urgent and it’s a tiny blip of time in this cosmic timescale.
Mm-hmm. When I can hold both. It’s something about me holding the tension of both of those helps me stay stable and centered.
Christina: Beautiful.
I love that. The one thing that has helped me. On like a moment to moment basis is, is connecting back with my breath.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: And, and your breath can do so many things.
Like sometimes when I’m with my kids and I’m helping them settle themselves, we might take a giant breath and blow it out like a great wind. Or we might take a really conscious slow breath and six counts in and six counts out and do that for a minute. There are so many different combinations of things.
There could be a breath with sound and like lip drills. All of these put me back in my body in a way that is so helpful. And that is like, that’s the moment to moment recalibration. Um, and we do, we do it so much that they’ll be like, I know, I know and breath.
Becky: They’ll thank you when they’re older. So much.
Yeah, that’s the breath is, or anything that’s accessible in the moment. The breath is, is what we have, but you also have your body. If breath is tricky, you know, you could do taps on your legs. Totally. Like anything to remind you. Right now I’m having a conversation with a dear friend. I have heat. I am indoors, I’m safe.
You know, I mean, especially if you’re engaging in, not if, I hope everyone’s engaging to some extent, to to be informed on what’s happening, to whatever extent you’re capable. But then take that moment to take that conscious breath or tap on your legs, or tap your feet on the floor to remind yourself. Yes, the world is on fire.
Yes. This is a, this is a destabilizing and uncomfortable point in history. And if you have a roof over your head and you have food in your belly, you are safe. And when you access that safety, ask yourself, what is the most authentic thing I can do right now to make a difference?
Christina: Mm-hmm. The only other thing I would add to that is, is, is the gratitude for all of it.
Like with this breath, there is a thank you, thank you, thank you. Like I wake up and I see the morning. Thank you for the morning.
Becky: Mm-hmm.
Christina: So. I feel like, can we end this conversation with a breath and three thank yous?
Becky: Absolutely.
Christina: Let’s do it.
Becky: Okay. Okay.
Christina: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Becky: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Christina: The music was recorded live as a part of the Sound Service at 3S Art Space in Portsmouth, New Hampshire in January, 2025, where musicians responded to the changing light in the room that reflected and refracted through Christina’s suspended artwork. Andrew Halchak, the composer of this piece is playing bass clarinet and Tomas Cruz and Katie Seiler are singing.
Becky: I completely agree. I’m always finding myself in this balance between, I feel like I’m always trying to like navigate the tension between growth and recognition of where I am and how far I’ve come.
Like there’s plenty of people who. There’s plenty of people who are actively cheering on the ICE agents, you know. And there’s people who are, you know, not aware. And there’s people who are aware but aren’t capable yet of sitting in the discomfort and really letting it change them. So everyone’s at a different place and I am really grateful that I have the capacity to be in the discomfort. That I have partners like you to have conversations with in a really safe space.
Um, and that’s what I’m so grateful that hopefully we can provide for others. Even if they’re just listening, you know, like a safe space to process their own discomfort and to like, no one’s gonna sit in discomfort unless they feel safe. And if you don’t feel like you have a safe community. To process that with, even if it’s an online community, you are not gonna do it.
So I agree.
