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Excerpt of the Podcast:
John Kremer: “I like how you started with existence and what is is. You've told me a number of times, just have the courage to admit, or to allow that what is, is. You said, "Well, that means that every thought that pops up is. It just is. It's not anything you have to worry about one way or the other, because it just is."
Louis: “Exactly. And so, what I noticed in this journey of discovery was actually, that stops the activity of the mind. So, the moment I acknowledge exactly what is arising as it is, it stops that movement of the mind. Well, as I like to call it, it arrests the mind. It stops it. It stops the illusion because what keeps it going is my attention. And when I acknowledged whatever's arising exactly as it is, it kind of freezes what's happening in my consciousness, which is then, at the same time, a great opportunity to see what actually is there. It's an opening for an inquiry, for the investigation. And what I noticed that's there, basically, is nothing, so to speak.”
“It's all an illusion. It is a creation of the mind. It's not real. And then, there are certain things that come with realising that it is not real, that that has a dynamic of its own, that that, at times, is very clever, so to speak.”
John Kremer: “You sort of defeat the monster of thought by denying it in the existence, but you do it not by pushing it out, it seems, but by embracing it in a sense, or at least accepting it.”
Louis: “Yeah. It's very, very interesting in what you're saying. So, by acknowledging the existence of what is arising, I deny it reality because in that allowing and then experiencing it exactly as it is, well, it disappears. I mean, it dissipates. It kind of dissolves. The duality that is created by language, well, dissolves itself.”
“And this is very interesting about a mind. To speak about how clever the dynamic is of illusion, is that it is exactly the opposite of the experience that it gives you, like, what is true is the opposite, then what the thinking tells you is true. For instance, it is counterintuitive when you've got all these thoughts happening and some of these thoughts, they might be scary, or they point to bushfire, or something that might happen. But the last thing that you will do is to allow for it, right? Like, "Oh my God, it might actually happen then." That's exactly the illusion that the thinking creates. Well, the opposite is, if you do, you see for what it is.”
John Kremer: “And when you see it for what it is, then you have nothing to fear.”
“I think I understand a little bit more now about what it means when you talk about allowing for the totality of thoughts to rise because what you're doing at that point is simply saying, "Well, it is."
Louis: “Yeah. Yes, I understand what you're saying. It's kind of like, by seeing the appearance exactly for what it is, it disappears because it was never there. It does not exist. It has never existed.”
John Kremer: “So, it doesn't even go poof because there's nothing to poof.”
Louis: “That's very funny. Yeah.”
John Kremer: “Well, I always think of it when something disappears, it goes poof. But the reality is, if it was never there in the first place, it can't poof.”
Louis: “It's amazing. Yeah, yeah. That's a bit disappointing given all the drama that that has been creating, but that's probably another aspect of it that is extremely funny. So, it is the disappearance of something that never was.”
John Kremer: “Which is... It's sort of like what we talked about in some previous sessions where you talked about the power of language and I mean, how can you say that something disappeared that never was in the first place, and yet in some... So, in some way, language can't quite catch it... It can point, but it can't necessarily be that accurate because in this case, the thing never disappeared because it never was.”
Louis: “Yeah. That's very interesting what you say. So, you could say that language points to being, but does not carry being. You see, that's the illusion of language.”
John Kremer: “As a writer, it's kind of a wonderful illusion.”
Louis: “It creates the illusional being, and that's part of, well, the hook that it creates. So, John, I just want to thank you for this conversation, just stunning. I mean, I'm speechless, for creating the opportunity for a conversation like this to come forward, which is just absolutely extraordinary. So, thank you.”
John Kremer: “Well, I wanted to thank you because there was at least one thing that's always been sort of boggling my mind, and that's that totality of the thoughts arising. But for me, when you talk about it as just recognising what is, somehow that's simpler for me. And I like it because, I think, it's a very powerful insight.”
Louis: “Yeah. I like it too, because of its simplicity. It is the one thing in our life that is indisputable, that is existence. That's something that is beyond belief, interpretation, philosophy. Truly, what is, is. So, I thought it was a great place to start an inquiry…
John Kremer: “So, I appreciated you going through those steps with me.”
Louis: “Yes. You are very welcome. Well, thank you.”
Dr Louis Koster, distinguished humanitarian, management consultant, and published author served for over ten years as a medical doctor for “Doctors Without Borders” and other humanitarian organizations in trouble spots across the globe. For his humanitarian efforts, Dr. Koster has received numerous awards and has appeared on radio, television, and news shows.
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With love,
Louis
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