Guest: Dr. Jessica Bunin
Host: Dr. Amy Vertrees, The BOSS Business of Surgery Series Podcast
In this episode, host Dr. Amy Vertrees sits down with Dr. Jessica Bunin, a West Point graduate, psychiatrist turned critical care physician, and co-founder of All Levels Leadership. With over two decades of military service, Dr. Bunin brings a deep understanding of leadership, followership, and moral courage to the conversation.
Together, they explore what it means to practice moral courage in healthcare — especially when values and organizational directives collide. Dr. Bunin shares how her experiences in the military and medicine shaped her commitment to developing leadership skills at all career stages and helping physicians navigate ethical and professional challenges with clarity and resilience.
Listeners will walk away with practical frameworks for building moral courage, developing supportive professional networks, and finding fulfillment in environments that may not always align with personal values.
The founding story of All Levels Leadership and its mission to teach leadership at every career stage
Redefining followership as "practicing influence when you don’t have authority"
The three elements of moral courage — values, risk, and endurance
Strategies for navigating moral dilemmas and maintaining integrity in complex healthcare environments
How to build a moral courage support system of advisors, peers, knowledge sources, and wellness practices
The power of longitudinal coaching and finding mentors who understand your patterns
Finding flow and fulfillment even in misaligned organizations
Why authentic connection and honesty about career aspirations are key to professional growth
00:00:02 – Introduction to Dr. Jessica Bunin
Background in military medicine and transition to leadership coaching.
00:01:07 – Founding All Levels Leadership
Identifying the leadership education gap for early-career physicians.
00:04:03 – The All Levels Leadership Team
How a diverse team of clinicians built a mission-driven organization.
00:05:57 – Origins of Moral Courage
From teaching followership to exploring moral action.
00:08:56 – Redefining Leadership and Followership
How influence, not authority, drives meaningful change.
00:12:37 – Defining Moral Courage
Understanding values, risk, and endurance in ethical decision-making.
00:19:21 – Navigating Moral Dilemmas
Balancing leadership responsibility with personal integrity.
00:23:22 – The Value of Longitudinal Coaching
How sustained mentorship provides clarity and resilience.
00:25:14 – All Levels Leadership Services
Coaching, consulting, and education for healthcare professionals.
00:29:57 – Navigating Misaligned Environments
Finding joy, building networks, and identifying sources of “flow.”
00:33:18 – The Power of Authentic Connections
Why honesty about your aspirations creates better opportunities.
Build a moral courage support system — advisors, peers, knowledge sources, and wellness practices.
Develop long-term coaching relationships for honest feedback and growth.
Seek mentors through trusted recommendations, not blind outreach.
Identify aspects of work that bring joy and flow to sustain well-being.
Maintain professional connections over time, even with minimal contact, to preserve opportunities and trust.
All Levels Leadership – Coaching, consulting, and leadership education for healthcare professionals.
Learn more about Dr. Jessica Bunin and her work on moral courage and professional identity formation.
“Moral courage is knowing your values, recognizing the risks of standing up for them, and finding ways to endure the consequences.” – Dr. Jessica Bunin
“What we really owe to people is to be our best selves.” – Dr. Jessica Bunin
