Kate speaks with literary critic, academic and research, Bernadette Brennan. Among many publications, Brennan has published an award winning literary biography of Helen Garner - A Writing Life: Helen Garner and Her Work - and most recently Leaping Into Waterfalls: The Enigmatic Gillian Mears. They discuss research in literary archives, the ives of Garner and Mears, the state of literary criticism in Australia and what Brennan has learned as a judge of the Miles Franklin Literary Award.