Rebekah Wolf
Content has always been a key element of any design system, but content designers have only recently become part of these system teams.
It's still early days, but the role of content in design systems is evolving rapidly. Rebekah Wolf has been part of that evolution through her work as a content designer on Microsoft's Fluent design system. She has also built a professional community around the subject with the Design System Content Club Slack that she founded and facilitates.
We talked about:
the Design System Content Club community Slack that she facilitates
her take on the state of the discipline of content in design systems
how to get design system leaders to invest in content
her content-design work on Microsoft's design system
the need to educate executive sponsors of design systems the value of content
how to deal with the challenges of inheriting design-system content that was created without a content designer's help
the benefits of including guidance elements like decision trees in design-system content
the importance of including practices like journey mapping as you are designing content for design systems
her thoughts on evangelism, onboarding, outreach, and other communication around design-system content - and the importance of leadership support for this
the difficulty of measuring and analyzing design-system content creation and use
the importance of remembering that content work in design systems is still a new and growing field and that you are not alone
Rebekah's bio
Rebekah Wolf has years of experience leading content design and strategy for Microsoft’s Fluent Design System and scaling content design across the company. When she’s not busy advocating for content design and applying systems thinking at Microsoft, she facilitates the Design Systems Content Club Slack and supports others in their design system journey.
Connect with Rebekah online
Design System Content Club Slack
LinkedIn
Video
Here’s the video version of our conversation:
https://youtu.be/gF4YgN3Kcls
Podcast intro transcript
This is the Content Strategy Insights podcast, episode number 142. When you think about design systems, things like component libraries and design tokens probably come to mind. But content is arguably the most important element in any design system. Like any product, a design system benefits when content designers guide users - in this case, internal users of the system - on their journey. Rebekah Wolf has done a lot of content work in design systems, and she facilitates a vibrant Slack community, the Design System Content Club.
Interview transcript
Larry:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to episode number 142 of the Content Strategy Insights podcast. I am really happy today to welcome to the show, Rebekah Wolf. Rebekah is the facilitator of the Design System Content Club Slack, and has done a lot of work on content and design systems. So welcome, Rebekah. Tell the folks a little bit more about your work on the Slack channel and in the design system world.
Rebekah:
Yeah, thanks for having me, Larry. So I am, like you said, the facilitator of the Design System Content Club on Slack, and this is a global community of content designers and content strategists who are either seasoned pros when it comes to design systems or they're just starting to get into the design system world and looking for ways to contribute and share ideas and collaborate with other people.
Rebekah:
And it's grown leaps and bounds really organically, but it's still kind of a really close-knit community, even though it's so big. We share a lot of information on the Slack channel and then we have monthly, or maybe semi-monthly meetups where we talk about different topics related to design systems that we're all interested in. And, yeah, it's been this really great way to collaborate in an area where a lot of us are working in silos.
Larry:
I love that.
Rebekah:
It's been really fun.
Larry:
Yeah, I mean, there were a lot of reasons I wanted to have you on the podcast, but my whole point here is to democratize the principles and practices of what we're all up to. And you have a unique view on that in there. I can remember not that long ago that you didn't even hear about content people on design system teams and now you have this vibrant growing Slack community.
Larry:
What's your feel for where are we at? Do we have a lot of people? Are there enough content people in design system work or do we need more, need fewer, need different? I guess what's the state of the discipline of content in design systems?
Rebekah:
Yeah, I feel like we are still in really early days when it comes to content design for design systems. I feel like content design itself as a practice for UX is still fairly early. So it kind of makes sense that we're just starting to understand that we need to be integrating content designers and content strategists more into the design systems. Right now it feels like maybe there's one content designer working on the design system at different companies, maybe two. And then at a lot of places it's just a content designer working on a product team that has an interest in design system work and wants to contribute wherever they can, but it's really just kind of a side project for them. It's not something that they're fully invested in.
Rebekah:
So we have a long way to go, but it feels like we're on the right track. It feels like a lot of places are really starting to understand that this is integral in a design system functioning the way it should.
Larry:
We probably have enough examples of places that do and don't have content people in their design systems. Are there any real hallmarks or things that jump out in places that do have content people involved?
Rebekah:
Yeah, the places that I, over the years, turn to a lot for guidance on how things should be done the right way are Atlassian's design system, and there's Shopify,'s Polaris design system. Intuit has an excellent, not only design system, but a content system for its products.
Rebekah:
And then recently I kind of put out a call on LinkedIn about how design systems are funding content design, and turns out those are actually the gold standards. They're actually fully investing in content design with not just one content designer, but in a lot of areas two content designers, which I feel like is still not enough, but it's way better than a lot of places are doing. So it's exciting to see that these gold standard places are the ones that are investing more in content design.
Larry:
That's interesting. Most of the places I'm aware of just have one, if you're lucky. I'm curious about the places that have two or more content designers. Do they specialize in different parts of the design system or do they pick up each other's workload? Is there a emerging trend there, or...?
Rebekah:
Yeah, that's an excellent question. And I mean part of the reason I put out that question on LinkedIn was so that I could connect with those content designers who are working on those design systems and figure out what the strategy is and how they're involved, and how do they get those design system leaders to really invest in the system? What does that process of influencing people who are at the top, who might not be as aware of what content design is? So I don't have any clear answers yet, but that's kind of what I'm after right now. I'm trying to figure those things out.
Larry:
That kind of what you just said kind of echoes what's been happening with content design in general, like just figuring out how to get the resources to get enough content designers to serve products well. And I guess in a sense, a design system is just another product and so in that sense, getting people involved, but it does seem, because the users of that product are internal, it seems like it's a little bit different. Are there unique challenges to getting staffing for design systems, do you think?
Rebekah:
Yeah, I can really only speak to the challenges that I've faced at Microsoft with our design system. One area is that I feel like it maybe not thought about as much athe return on investment is. What is the value that a design system brings to its users? Which is hopefully the entire company, not just designers, but engineers, PMs, any stakeholders that need to have reusable components and patterns.
Rebekah:
And I think right now one of the problems is that we don't have really any consistency when it comes to how we're approaching those problems and the understanding of what content design brings to solving those problems as well. So it's really, we need to be a little more focused on educating the people who are at the top, who are funding these roles, and how to do it in a way that will bring the most impact and value to everybody who's using the system. So helping them understand not only who should be contributing to it in a really focused way, but what is the value in doing that?
Larry:
Yeah, the way you're talking, you're reminding me of the generic benefits of a design system, the main two I think being consistency and efficiency. And you're doing that for internal teams, so it seems like the impact of this kind of work, it seems like if you were deciding on staffing, it seems like it'd probably make more sense or as much sense if you had a limited budget to fund the content designer in the design system over anybody in any one particular customer facing product. Or am I jumping ahead of myself there?
Rebekah:
No, I think that that's true. I mean, we have to start with the design system. I mean, that's the foundation for all of the products. And what I found with the Microsoft Fluent design system is that the core components that were originally built were not built with content design in mind.
Rebekah:
