The AG45 Soul Aligned Strategy Podcast, hosted by Katherine Breuss, explores how business owners can build a meaningful and enjoyable business. In this episode, Katherine interviews Pat Miller, founder of the Small Business Owners Community (SBOC). Pat shares his journey from radio to supporting his wife's photography business and establishing SBOC to combat entrepreneurial loneliness. They discuss the importance of aligning one's soul with business, the challenges small business owners face, such as managing lifestyle and pricing strategies, and the necessity of being comfortable with selling. Pat also emphasizes the value of leveraging AI and global contractors for smarter business operations. Katherine and Pat agree on the importance of redefining success to include time and financial freedom. They conclude with reflections on past business mistakes and the ongoing journey of personal and professional growth.
Contact Pat - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jpatmiller/
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Katherine Breuss: Welcome Pat Miller to the AG45 Soul Aligned Strategy Podcast. I wanna introduce Pat. He is founder of the SBOC. And I'm just gonna let Pat roll with it and tell us a little bit about him himself as a human, but also about his business. Pat, go for it.
Pat Miller: Well, thanks for having me, Katherine. I appreciate it. It's really fun to get a chance just to talk shop with you and talk about what it takes to build a business worth owning and a life worth living. And that's something that I'm really focused on right now and that's why I lead the SBOC, which is the small business owners community. It's an online group that we founded in the heart of the pandemic, and we bring people together to solve problems and capture opportunities so they can end entrepreneurial loneliness and make their small business dreams come true. So who am I and how do we do it? Well, I'm a dad and I'm a husband, and I'm the spouse of a small business owner. That turned to me 14 years ago when the kids were going to school saying, now what am I gonna do? And she was gonna be an author and she's like, you know what? Maybe I should be a photographer. So my wife Abby, opened her photography studio. So after 22 years of being in radio and helping small businesses. I'm now the spouse of someone that's going to build their small business. And there was a moment about, I don't know, six months into her running her business where she went out to a local networking organization and some older gentlemen said, "Quit. You'll never make it." Oh. There's just something that's snapped inside of me. I'm like, "Oh, no, no, no, no. That can't stand." So together, behind the scenes, I was helping her with her business and she's still open doing great stories. Frame photography, go Abby. She's doing awesome, but she's my hero. She took an idea, turned it into a business, and now she's supported the family with it. So when I decided to leave the radio industry and go build something for myself, she was my inspiration. That moment that she had along with a bunch of other moments are what fuel me to help small business owners win. And I'm fortunate enough to get to do that every day. I love it.
Katherine Breuss: I love it. I love that that inspired you when, like the no, no, no, no. Oh, no, no. Very cool. And I did, I did see radio. I am, I'm just curious about that. Do you mind sharing just your experience there for a moment? Because that in my mind has always been, a bit of a dream radio. And 'cause when I was young. And lived in Milwaukee. We would drive to Chicago because my family's from Chicago. And on Sunday night when we'd drive back to Milwaukee from Chicago, I don't know, it was like nine o'clock or something. There was this radio show and it was all, it was scary. Why? I always thought it was scary and it was just like, what? It just, the imagination. It created. You know, I'm actually a bit sad that there isn't more of that this day and age, so I'd love to just hear just for a bit your experience in radio.
Pat Miller: That was act one. I was on the high school speech team and the speech coach said, "You're gonna do radio speaking" and you had to read a five-minute newscast and I loved it. And he said, "You should make this your career." So I went to Illinois State University where they have an incredible college radio program. I spent every day of my entire college career in the studio. On campus on the air. Got my first professional job full-time before I graduated. Became the boss of that station. Moved to Des Moines, moved to Lincoln Nebraska. Moved to Omaha, Nebraska, and then came to Milwaukee. I don't know, it was 14 years ago when the original 94.5 KTI got blown up and turned into 94.5 The Lake. They invited me to come be the boss of that station, be the morning show host. So I moved with my wife all around the country, building radio stations, hosting events, raising money for charity, helping businesses, working at the state fair with the Brewers and the Bucks and the Packers. And it was such an incredible career and I loved it. And, and, and. It was the greatest training school for an entrepreneur you can imagine. 'cause I learned how to do all this stuff. It was awesome.
Katherine Breuss: That sounds like a lot of fun. I'm really jealous. It was really fun. Having said that, I've done enough moving around that that I'm kind of like, I'm kind of happy, like. Rooted in where I'm at at the moment, but, and I can tell that you got the radio voice. Oh, well thank you. Thank you very much. Happy to be here. I love it. It's a very nice, it's a nice, soothing voice.
Katherine Breuss: So Pat, I. Wanna ask the standard question that we, we ask all guests on here, because this is about soul aligned and then, you know, translating that into the business. And so I'd love to hear from you how you define soul aligned and the impact you see it having in your business and or your life. When you are versus when maybe there might have been a time where you weren't.
Pat Miller: Yeah. I left the radio industry when I had, I guess, a midlife crisis when I realized, I woke up one day and realized I was building somebody else's dream. That if I stayed in the position that I was in, someone would tell me what to do with my life until they didn't need me anymore. And then what would I do? I decided to go out and follow my curiosity and try and help people. So what does that have to do with soul aligned? I think for me it's kind of a journey. It's not something that I'm even there yet, but I'm on my way there. And what I found is that. When I am doing what I believe and I am trusting my intuition and I'm following my gifts and talents and I'm not worrying about what other people think. Big component, as I'm sure you would teach people, that's where all the good stuff is. And as a chronic people pleaser, as a and as a person whose job for 22 years was to get people to like them. Yeah. Like I literally got to keep my job if people voted for me. It is kind of a 180 to go from create radio stations and say things that people will be attracted to that fit the format to, well, what do you believe? What do you wanna see come true? And how are you gonna show up and serve with your gifts and talents? And that's something that I've been struggling with ever since I left the industry, and it's something that I, I work on all the time. So when do I not feel aligned? I don't feel aligned when I'm not following my intuition, when I'm doing what other people tell me. When I'm trying to get people to notice something, when I'm promoting something, when do I feel aligned when I'm not thinking at all? When I'm saying what I believe, when I don't care what the ramifications are when I'm building and creating, when I'm coaching people. So one of the things that we get to do is a thing called the Idea Slam. And when the idea Slam starts, it's a hot seat that I facilitate, but when you get in the zone of helping someone. That's where all of like time stops for me. And the logo of the small business owners community is a lightning bolt because when I connect the dots in my head, I literally see a flash in my head. I see a flash. When that really lands, I physically see a flash. That's why the logo is a lightning bolt. And that's when I know that I am aligned. When I'm not thinking, I'm not worried about what people think, and I'm out there saying what? Saying what must be said, not worrying about what do I say to get people to listen. And I think that those are two totally separate things and I, I would imagine people you have on the show, show up and have it all figured out. I don't, I'm working on it every day, but that's how I define the difference between the two and what I'm trying to get better at.
Katherine Breuss: No. And actually no one who's on the show. Okay, good. And if they do, it's like Uhuh. No, like, you know, wrong because I mean, actually until, I don't think we will ever have it all figured out. 'cause to your point, I love the fact that you said it's a journey because. It is a journey. Like you're never gonna be like, "Oh, perfect, I'm so aligned and that's it." I'm done. Yeah. Like, no, the next day it might be like, "Oh, okay. That wasn't so aligned there." Totally. Okay, good. I'm glad to know that I'm not the funky on the podcast. You are not the funky No. Gosh, no. No. I actually, I loved that you. Just the transparency and just being like, I don't have it all figured out. Because I think, you know, and we were talking about this before is like in particularly this day and age with social media and all of that, you know, everything online is people showing about how great they are or how great their life is and, and. As humans, our first thing that we do without thinking about it is we, um, judge, we analyze, we critique, um, we compare, and this is going on without us even thinking. And so when all of this stuff is coming at us. Subconsciously, we aren't even realizing that we are automatically doing those things. Like, "Huh, gosh, I'm not doing what they're doing. Maybe I should be doing that." Or, "You know, look how great they look. You know, why don't I look that great," or, or whatnot. And so I think being a bit more real and being like, "Hey, life is tough, or don't have it figured out, or I'm misaligned, or whatever" I think is. Mm-hmm.
Katherine Breuss: Um, that's what I'm more interested in. Yeah. There's a lot of clay here to mold. There is a lot of clay. You know what I just realized? I just picked up, like, I have this tide pen, like to like, you know, with the stains or anything that comes on. Um, you said something earlier, not many people actually say this and so it, it, it stuck with me and you and you've used this I think twice, maybe three times. You used the word intuition. Um, and, uh, first of all, I love that you did because, um, it is our intuition, which everybody has, not everybody is awake to. It is, uh, such a guiding and you said lightning bolt, but such a guiding light to whether or not we are heading in the right direction. My question to you is, how do you know. It's your intuition talking to you versus something else. I know you mentioned the lightning bolt is one, but is like, how do you know?
Pat Miller: I don't know if I do all the time. Uh, I wish I could clearly call balls and strikes on what's intuition and what's not, but I do believe that we're constantly lint rolling. Input and inspiration and feedback and observation, maybe comparison and all the other things that you mentioned too, but I'm always kind of noting things that are interesting and it all goes into the circular file in the back of your head, and then there's a time when it comes out. There's a time when the dots connect. I read a book a long time ago that that's the secret to creativity is simply connecting disconnected dots. Mm-hmm. When you can make two things connect that don't normally connect, it looks creative, and when I'm asked to solve a problem for someone or think about something differently, I really try to get as much distance from. Their issue is I can, and really think about what are we trying to do here? What, what does the answer look and feel like? What does, what are we trying to accomplish? And really boil it down to as simple as we can get. And that's where those intuitive answers come from because they are simple. Their feelings, their insights, their they're natural. So I don't know when it's intuition and when it's something I read five years ago, but it, I find that the really ones, like the ideas that I would call intuitive, the, not only are they the best stuff, I think they're also effortless. They just show up like, "Hey, by the way, here's the answer." It's not something that I really have to deduce if I can quiet and get distance from the drama around the issue. Another thing that someone taught me that took me years to figure out how to actually implement, which is putting as much distance between the cause and the reaction, like, here's the issue. Trying not to react to the issue for as long as you can. Wow. Your biggest client canceled. Okay, let's do something about that, but let's not react to the cancellation. Like there's, there's space there. And by making that space, you can choose how you respond to it and sometimes save a deal or come up with an intuitive answer that doesn't take you off the rails, but that. That space, that, that, that letting the room to breathe for simple, clear answers that can come to you intuitively. I find that those are the best ones, but I don't know which ones are intuitive and which ones aren't.
Katherine Breuss: I like the word space. Um. And because when we give ourselves space, um, we can step back and actually see more clearly when we are in the tornado of thought is what I call it. Um, we cannot, and, and. I love that you, you used an example, like, you know, your biggest client cancels or. Mm-hmm.
Katherine Breuss: Um, I, I liked it to tell myself as well, as well as people who I work with when something bad, and I'm putting it in quotes, seems to happen. You know, my first question is, is, well, is it? Not everything is as it seems, and I know that, I think that came from like Kung Fu Panda or something, but I mean like, you know, it's like, I think it was the turtle or whatever the, or the wise one of like, not everything seems, but it's true because like, have you ever it, like I'm sure you've had something happen to you where at the time you're like, "Oh my gosh, this is. This is horrible." And then you look, then, you know, maybe six months go by or a year and you look back and you go, "Oh my gosh. Yeah, I'm so grateful that happened" because if it hadn't, this wouldn't have, or you know, so you just never know. Like that big client canceling. You could have had two more bigger because of it.
Pat Miller: Yeah. It could be the best thing that never happened. Yeah. And we find that all over the place. And an example of that, when I was in the radio industry, I was in Omaha. I was trying to make it to a big market. The way radio works is the bigger the city, the bigger the money, the bigger the influence. You're trying to move up the market sizes to get to the really big cities. I had an interview in Philadelphia. I was in Omaha Market, 89. Philadelphia was like market, not very many like one of the big dogs. Went there, killed the interview. Thought I was gonna get it. Didn't get it. Devastated. Devastated thought, I'm never gonna work again. And I still had a job, but like massive disappointment. And to your point, less than a year later, they blew up the station and I would've been outta work on the east coast away from the family. And it's the best thing that never happened. So the best thing that never happened, we can look back and probably find a lot of those in our work history and our life.
Katherine Breuss: Ab Yeah. And, and that's like, and if we can think that way. As much as possible. I'm not saying like obviously we're going, it's okay to feel disappointed. It's okay to have those emotions in the moment, but if we're able to step back and as you say, have the space to at least maybe even have that thought of like, "Huh, what if this isn't actually." Bad. Yeah. Or you know, the best thing that never happened. Is that what you said? Yeah. Best thing that never happened. Yeah. And a thing that we did in radio all the time is that we always look for the opportunity and the challenge, like when something bad happens, that is an opportunity for good things to happen.
Pat Miller: Hmm. So we gotta direct competitor in the radio industry. Or your biggest client canceled. Wow, that's really terrible. But whoa. I was spending 20 hours a week servicing them. Now I've got an opportunity to redeploy that time. Double my rates, half my work. So how might that look? Yeah, so in chaos becomes opportunity if you choose to take that, that mindset when you're dealing with those kinds of things.
Katherine Breuss: Absolutely. And that's, yeah, and you're right, it's the mindset because you can choose to stay in the whirlwind or the tornado of thought, drama, chaos, whatever that's happening. And yeah, you're gonna be stuck. You're not going to shift and move and evolve, um, to that next level.
Katherine Breuss: Um, I, uh, that I, I had a question in my mind. You said something and it, oh my God. Again, this is like my getting into old age. Like this. This question came through that my head and I was like, "Oh my God, this is a great question." It's gone out, so it might come back to me. It just hasn't yet. Um. So, oh, here it is. So thinking about, you know, you've got the SBOC, so you are around a lot of business owners. Mm-hmm. Um, what do you see at the moment? Um, so we are September, 2025. What do you see is some of the biggest, maybe the top one or two challenges that you, um, are finding with business owners right now?
Pat Miller: I don't think they know how to lead the lifestyle. I don't think they know how to maximize the opportunity that they have by being their own boss. Mm-hmm. And they're working in frameworks and expectations that they are putting on themselves that no one else is putting on them. Mm. And the most, uh, basic example of that is a 40-hour work week. Why? Yeah. Why you don't need to. You don't need to. We took one vacation this summer. Why no one, there's no surveillance camera in the sky waiting for you to clock in and clock out. You can build a better business and you can make it work for you and have a business that doesn't own you the other way around. That's one of the big ones that I see is that people don't know how to lead the lifestyle. The other big one, and I'm sure you help people with this all the time too, is they don't charge enough. Yeah, they quit charging too little. The world has gotten way more expensive. I was just doing research for the keynote I'm giving at our conference September 20, 24 to now 2.4%, uh, consumer price index change. So if you had, uh, a hundred thousand dollars, that same spending power is on now, like $97,000. So if you haven't raised your rates across the board. By at least 2%, you're now losing money and everything got more expensive and people are terrified to raise their rates and it's ridiculous. So low rates and not knowing how to lead the lifestyle, those are the two big things that I see right now.
Katherine Breuss: That's interesting. I think it's, um, you know, to the whole lifestyle thing. And so, you know, I was overseas for 22 years, so London, Singapore, Australia. And there's a very different, uh, mentality about how to live, life and work. Mm-hmm. Um, and in America, and then when I moved back here, it was like, "Wow. Oh my God, I'm back. I'm back to the culture of like, people are proud to be like, I didn't take a holiday." You know, you go, "Why?" Whereas like in, in. Um, the other countries, it was four weeks was minimum that companies give a year and they look at you like you're nuts if you haven't taken them. Yeah. And haven't taken those holidays. So it's interesting too that on top of that, when you're your own boss, that that mentality is still, is still kind of there of like, "No, you need to work 40 days a week." 'cause I knew a lot of small business owners in particularly in Australia, and they. No. They'd be like, "I gotta go catch the waves, you know?" Yeah. And you know, I've gotta go have my tinny, you know, their beer, you know, at four o'clock or whatever. You know, it's
Katherine Breuss: So what do you, okay, so to that, 'cause it's a very important thing. And it you, you alluding to working smarter, not harder. Mm-hmm. What would be some tips or advice for somebody listening that is in this position that might go, "Yeah, but how, how do I do that?" Because I still need to make money. Mm-hmm. And in their mind it's like, "I gotta work the hours in order to do that." So what would be some advice you have for them in that?
Pat Miller: Well, that's. That's the first thing. "I gotta work the hours to make the money." You have to disconnect time and money completely. And you have to realize the era that we're in. We are in a, perhaps once in a generation opportunity for people in businesses our size to have an incredible amount of leverage. Because we're having massive disruption with how work gets done. Now. We have AI tools that can help us. We have global contractors at our fingertips. Mm-hmm. There is no excuse for you to do anything other than only what you must do. Everything else needs to be brought off your plate. And if, if it was a life or death situation, if the doctor came to you and said, "You've only got 20 hours a week to make the money." You would make these changes, but because we have the luxury of not being disciplined, uh, what's the quote that "time will expand the work will fill the time allotted"? We just fill our week because it's performative. It's performative productivity. "I worked really hard this week, honey." Okay, great. Did you make any money? Right. Did you sell something? No. So with this era, this incredible leverage that we have, I think we have to take that leverage and we get to make a choice. There are two choices, and if we don't make it, our clients will make them for make it. For us, the first choice is to just do more for the clients and keep working the same amount. 'cause soon they're gonna expect more if they don't already, or. Redefine our relationship with time and money and how the work gets done. Redefine our relationship with time so that we are working, uh, smarter hours, more disciplined time. We're delegating, we're using all the technology that's available and redefine what we're doing with money. So we're aggressively raising our rates, we're controlling our expenses, and. We're selling again.
Katherine Breuss: Mm-hmm. You talk about things people aren't doing. If I could have a third one, what's the third thing that'd be people don't sell? It's, it makes me insane. It, it makes me insane. No one's gonna walk up to you and buy if you don't try and sell. We need to be selling all the time. Mm-hmm. It is, it's, and no, that is, it's, well, what's interesting to me is I keep hearing.
Katherine Breuss: You know, and this kind of irks me a bit, and I don't know if I should say this 'cause this might piss some people off, but like I've noticed when I've come back here, I hear a lot of people going, "If we're at a networking event or something, I'm like, oh, well you know, why are you here? What? Tell me, you know, tell me more about," and they'll be like, "Well, I'm just here to help people." I'm like, "Okay, um, what does that mean? Like, I just like meeting people and, and I'm like, I'm not here to sell anything. I'm not here." And I kind of sit and I'm like, "You know what? We've, we've gotten past this." Like "selling is bad." Like there's something like, and I say to people, I'm like, "Unless you're scamming me. Yeah." Or you've got something like your service or your product is like rubbish or crap, then yeah, you should feel bad. But if you have something of value. I mean, just be like, "Yeah, here, I'm here to meet people, but I also have this great thing that I am, you know, offering this service that I'd like to tell people about. And I'd also like to see if there's some collaborations or whatever you wanna say." But I've heard this so much that it drives me nuts. And I'm like, "If one more person tells me that they just, they're just here wanting help people or meet people, I'm like. Okay, well come on. Like, yeah, you can do that along the way, but you're, you're ultimately, I don't know, maybe, maybe I'm gonna piss people off by saying this, but.
Pat Miller: I think they need to be pissed off. I think they need to understand that's not acceptable behavior if they need to win the bread for the household or if it's a life or death, death situation, that we don't have the luxury of not selling things if we need to make the money. So if we wanna have a performative business that's 40 hours a week and we don't wanna be seen as salesy and we don't understand that sales is simply excellent service for the person that you're on the planet to serve, that's all sales is. What's your problem? I can fix it. Give me money. Please drive through. Like, that's it. That's sales. That's all. It's so easy. But people don't think that way. They think it's somehow scammy or it's slimy and it's like, "Oh man." And then, and then when they don't have any money, then things get extra hard. Mm-hmm. Then it's, "Oh well, so the algorithm, oh, it's the agro, or whatever the excuse is." Well, no. How many people are in your pipeline? Have you called your past customers? How many leads are you working on right now? Have you raised your rates in the last calendar year? Are you playing business or are you doing business?
Katherine Breuss: Yeah. Really, what are we doing here? So I'm with you. And if they're gonna be pissed at you, they'll be pissed at me too. Because, and because you are here to help people. You wanna help them win. I wanna help them win. And this is what they need to hear. Yeah. This is what they need to hear if they wanna stay open.
Katherine Breuss: This is, it's very, very true. I love that. "Playing business or doing business," right? Yeah. There's, um. Uh, there was someone that I was potentially working with. Um, one of the partners has owned a business. The other partner, um, their siblings, um, potential partner hasn't, has been an employee. I mean, you can always spot, there's a different mentality of an employee mentality, not that there's anything wrong with employees. Yep. And an entrepreneurial business owner mentality. And they were offered this opportunity, um, and the, the employee, um. Sibling, uh, was saying, "Yeah, no, I just want a business that I don't have to do much. Um, it's gonna run for me. And it's, um, recession proof." Yeah. And I was like, "I'm like, uh, I don't think there's many of those out there, like business, running a business is hard work and I think there is this naivety. Um, that a lot of people have like, 'Oh, I wanna be a business owner, and, um, it'll be so great and whatnot.'" It's hard work. There is a, a, a mentality that you have to have in order to be successful. I mean, what are your thoughts on that in the sense of if some were to, to say to you. Pat and they are an employee their, their whole life. Um, I would really like to be a business owner. I think it would be really cool to be my own boss. What would be your advice to them or questions that you would ask them?
Pat Miller: First I would ask, "Do you wanna get comfortable selling things?" Mm-hmm. "Are you willing to do the work to ask people for money?" That's the very first decision tree question. If the answer is yes, we can continue talking. If the answer is no, go work for someone who is, that's the first filter question. And if they don't pass that, we don't talk anymore. If they really want real guidance, you know? Yeah. I'm, I'm willing to, uh, go out and sell things and ask people for money. Okay, great. "What are you gonna do?" Well, I kind of like this. Okay, cool. "How are you going to do it differently?" Oh, I, I don't know. Okay, we'll figure that out. And then you can go open a business. Well, "How do I know if it's gonna work?" You need to go talk to people, and you need to show potential clients. "This is what I'm going to go out and do, and here's how I'm gonna do it differently than all the other service providers or whatever they're going to do for a living that already exist." The differentiation, both of target market and services rendered mixed together, can make you one of one. You can be the carwash solution for left-handed dogs in Waukesha County. You could be the only one that does that. And there's a business there. There's all these other car washes, but this is the one for the left-handed dogs. So like we have to get them to the idea that, "Yes, I'm gonna sell something and I'm willing to do something that's unique." If you don't do those two things, you're really gonna be charging uphill.
Katherine Breuss: Hmm. I absolutely, and I think that is that first one and that whole, it's, it's a mindset thing because absolutely. If you aren't, because selling is putting yourself out there. Mm-hmm. It's putting yourself out there. And I think that first people who have that entrepreneurial spirit, they're not afraid to do that like they are like, "Yep, I will put myself out there." Um. But there may be this aspect of them not knowing how to do that. Um, but when somebody has that employee mindset, this is where I see is just the difference in the sense of that they aren't willing to take the risk or bet on themselves and they think it's just something that. I don't know. It's like a cool thing. I can just run a business and I can bring my skills and that's all I need to do.
Pat Miller: Yeah. I don't know. It's like, "Well, huh. Not so sure about that." Um, I wanna switch gears because I, I want to ask a question in terms of a time as a business owner that you look back and you go, "Oh man. That was, that really was a not so great decision at the time." Um, or a mistake. Um, is there something that you can think of that you are willing to share? And then from that, what you took away or, or learned from that?
Katherine Breuss: Early on in the business, maybe a year, maybe two. I had been trained to be a facilitator. I loved being. Getting people around a whiteboard. I love bringing people together. So building a mastermind product was a very simple solution. To do that. It allowed me to do the MC thing. It allowed me to be the brainstorming guy. It allowed me to manage the relationships, and I still do them to this day. But when I started, I did it wrong because I went for quantity in a low price. And here's where it went wrong. It went wrong 'cause I was really good at selling it. I woke up with four different masterminds every week. Oh gosh. Six people in a mastermind almost every day of the week. And when you have that many people in your program, the numbers at the end of the month don't look terrible. But it was absolutely exhausting. I wasn't giving my best to the clients I was working with because I was exhausted and there were so many of them. It wasn't a true partnership. So looking back on it, when I say, "Oh, raise your rates, quit charging too little," like, I've lived that life. I know what that's like because the danger isn't. Low rates don't make you enough money. The danger is low rates get you too much work and you, your ship hits the iceberg. Mm-hmm. Like you, you totally burn out and you hate your life. Mm-hmm. So that happened to me and since then I've remodeled things and do things differently, charge more money, blah, blah. But that was the big mistake, is I undervalued the programs and then did a good job selling them, and I was so successful. I was miserable.
Katherine Breuss: Yes. Well, and so, you know, um, the business, my businesses Accelerate Growth 45, and everybody has this idea that, "Oh, we mean you've gotta scale and you've gotta grow to the biggest possible way." It's like, "No, it's, it's growth." And growth can mean different things in terms of whether that is, yeah, growing your business, but it's growing your bottom line. Not necessarily, you know, the numbers, the revenue, not necessarily the people. Um, I worked, I did some business development for a colleague of mine, um, who's in a consulting in, in the UK, and I looked at his numbers and his books and I was like. Um, he grew massively over a period of time 'cause there was an explosion in this space. Um, and he went from under a million pound business to almost 3 million pound business. And, but he had, I think at then 20 people and, you know, all these things of managing his profit went down. His time went up in terms of spending on the business and the stress and majority of the business came from two clients where I was like, "Ah, what happens if one of these clients?" And guess what happened? Yeah, they both, one ended up like. Skirting away. Um, just 'cause usually there's a lifespan of about five years in the larger consulting gigs and the second significantly reduced. And so then that business like completely shrunk. Um, but the profit went, went, um, had to let people go, but the profit went up significantly up again. And the enjoyment. So it's this, um, to your point that more isn't necessarily, um, better in the sense of numbers of people, but more in, you know, I would say the bottom line and also more time back for you. That's the thing. 'cause where I'm going is Fridays off. I'm packaging all of what I'm doing with time and money to build a business strong enough that you can take every Friday off.
Pat Miller: Because people that do what I do, people that are their own accounting business, people that are a website developer or a photographer, there's no reason why they have to work on Fridays or have complete control of their time and money so they can build it however they wanna build it. Provided. They value time as compensation, which we all should. So let's make a big pile of money and let's make sure that our business is set up in a way that we can enjoy the fruits of our labor. 'cause when we went back to that conversation and you said, "Okay, um, here's someone that's just starting out. If we ask them, well, what do you want out of a business? They would say the same thing." I want the freedom of time and money to do what I want, when I want how I want. And somewhere along the way, we all lost the plot. But yeah, and I'm trying to bring 'em back to it because that's where we gotta go. And I think that's a contemporary version of what success looks like because we have the ability right now to make that happen if we have the courage to make the changes necessary. To go that direction. So when you said time, I'm like, "Bingo. That's exactly it. That's where I want to take people."
Katherine Breuss: Hmm. I mean, I'm actually thinking with, um, with my business is having, uh, Decembers and Julys off and actually scheduling the, the clients around it, because most people anyway, in December, they're all winding down as it is mm-hmm. In July. People are like, they're off at the Lake house or Florida, well, no, maybe not Florida in July. But you know, they're doing, you know, they're doing other stuff. And so I'm actually, I've been thinking about that going, "Huh? I'm really digging that idea. I think that would be incredible."
Pat Miller: Mm-hmm. There's no reason not to. Yeah. Especially with the way that we can line everything up and if we have to take a meeting or two from the Lake House in July, who cares? Yeah. I.
Katherine Breuss: Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. That, that's a different story for another time. Um, pat, I love it. This has been, um, really a fantastic conversation. I have thoroughly enjoyed it. Um, you are speaking my language in so many ways. Um, and I'd love to have you back, um, another time.
Pat Miller: So. I appreciate your time spending with us. Uh, it was an honor and a privilege and I love the conversation as well. Ring me up. I'll be right here. I'd love to do it.
Katherine Breuss: Alright, I will. All right. Alright, pat. Thank you.
Pat Miller: Thank you.
