What if we could produce real meat—without animals?
For decades, the animal-welfare movement has worked to reduce suffering by changing laws, corporate practices, and consumer behavior. Those efforts have delivered meaningful progress. And yet, billions of animals are still raised and killed each year for food.
That reality raises an urgent question—one that would have sounded like science fiction not long ago: Can we fundamentally change how meat is made?
On this episode of the Animal Wellness Podcast, host Joseph Grove sits down with Paul Shapiro, a leading voice at the intersection of animal welfare, food innovation, and climate policy. Paul is the author of the national bestseller Clean Meat, which helped introduce and popularize the concept of growing real meat directly from animal cells—eliminating the need for factory farming altogether. In addition, we’re joined by Wayne Pacelle, who is a previous of colleague of Paul and the president of Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy.
In this conversation, we explore:
This episode goes beyond hype or fear-based narratives to ask deeper questions about ethics, innovation, and what real progress for animals might look like in the decades ahead.
About the Guest
Paul Shapiro is the CEO of The Better Meat Co., the author of “Clean Meat: How Growing Meat Without Animals Will Revolutionize Dinner and the World,” a five-time TEDx speaker, and the host of the Business for Good Podcast. He has been recognized as a Most Admired CEO by the Sacramento Business Journal.
About the Show
The Animal Wellness podcast is produced by Animal Wellness Action and the Center for a Humane Economy. It focuses on improving the lives of animals in the United States and abroad through legislation and by influencing businesses to create a more humane economy. The show is hosted by veteran journalist and animal-advocate Joseph Grove.
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