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When we suffer, we suffer because we try to find happiness in something that will never give it to us," Fr Daniel Chowning said.

Yes... and that wasn't even the "quote to remember from this episode", according to Bishop Frank!

Fr Daniel Chowning OCD is a Discalced Carmelite priest and author of Healed by Love: Contemplation as a Path of Healing according to St John of the Cross.

Fr Daniel joined Bishop Caggiano to talk about:

...who are the Carmelites, and who was John of the Cross?

...what exactly is the Dark Night of the Soul?

...what is contemplation?

...how can we find true healing?

This is a fantastic conversation. Enjoy!

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