Description

This episode explores how drones, cell phones, and other widely-available intelligence tools are turning civilians and aid workers into frontline witnesses—documenting war in real time, guiding humanitarian aid, and helping build evidence that could power future war crimes cases. 

Host: 

Gabrielle Sierra, Director of Podcasting, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR)

Guest:

Anthony Vinci, Cofounder and CEO, Vico; Adjunct Senior Fellow, Technology and National Security Program, Center for a New American Security (CNAS)

Sam Vigersky, International Affairs Fellow, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR)

We discuss:

• How drones, satellites, smartphones, and other widely-available tools are changing who gets to document war.
• How civilians are no longer just witnesses to conflict but are also recording attacks in real time and helping gather intelligence
• As Anthony Vinci puts it: “We’re becoming civilian spies.”
• How ordinary people are building digital evidence libraries online that may later support investigations into war crimes and accountability efforts.
• How drones are blurring the line between surveillance, intelligence gathering, and direct attacks on the battlefield.
• Why more access to information does not always lead to justice, especially when politics and institutions fail to act.
• How journalists, aid workers, and civilians face greater danger when documenting violence and sharing what they see.
• Why the growing flood of footage, data, and digital records is changing how audiences process war emotionally.

Read more:

Anthony Vinci, The Fourth Intelligence Revolution

Sam Vigersky, “Beyond Conventional Aid: Institutionalizing Public-Private Partnership in Ukraine’s Humanitarian Response,” CFR.org

“Counting the Dead,” Human Rights Watch

“Listen, Run, Hide: How Russia Uses Quadcopter Drones to Hunt and Kill Civilians in Kherson, Ukraine,” Human Rights Watch

“UN Commission Concludes that Russian Armed Forces’ Drone Attacks Against Civilians in Kherson Province Amount to Crimes Against Humanity of Murder,” United Nations Human Rights Office of the High Commissioner

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Why It Matters is a production of the Council on Foreign Relations. The opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host and guests, not of the Council, which takes no institutional positions on matters of policy.