n this episode, I welcome counselor and trauma-healing specialist Norma Burton and lucid dreaming practitioner and filmmaker Nisha Burton to discuss their book Navigating Liminal Realms. They define liminal realms as the in-between space connecting ordinary waking reality with non-ordinary reality (dreamtime), and describe the book as a training manual for safely navigating these states—especially as interest grows in psychedelics and shamanic practices. They emphasize preparation and “psycho-navigation” (learning universal and personal maps of the psyche), developing a safe container, and beginning integration before psychedelic ceremonies. Norma explains how trauma can fragment the psyche, how shadow material forms through splits between persona and unconscious, and frames healing as a gradual process akin to soul retrieval that individuals must do with guidance over time. Nisha and Norma describe lucid dreaming and drumming journeys as substance-free precursor practices that build agency, trust in inner guidance, and skills for meeting shadow material, including techniques for dream recall, reality checks, sustaining lucidity, and working with nightmares. The conversation also addresses Western tendencies to externalize authority, the importance of self-responsibility, decolonizing mind and soul, honoring lineage to avoid appropriation, and the idea that current global changes (including AI and climate crisis) reflect a collective liminal time calling for inner work and wholeness.
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Norma Burton https://normaburton.com/
Nisha Burton
Navigating Liminal Realms
Inner Traditions
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