Host Gautam Bhattacharyya welcomes Isha Shakir of Henderson Chambers for this episode of Spotlight on… The conversation explores Isha’s decision to enter the legal profession as a barrister, mentors she has benefited from along the way, career highlights to date and what SAHM 2025 means to her.
----more----
Transcript:
Intro: Welcome to Arbitral Insights, a podcast series brought to you by our international arbitration practice lawyers here at Reed Smith. I'm Peter Rosher, Global Head of Reed Smith's International Arbitration Practice. I hope you enjoy the industry commentary, insights and anecdotes we share with you in the course of this series, wherever in the world you are. If you have any questions about any of the topics discussed, please do contact our speakers. And with that, let's get started.
Gautam: Hello, everyone, and welcome to our latest episode of our Spotlight on podcast series. And this is one of our special mini-series to mark South Asian Heritage Month 2025, the theme of which is Roots to Roots. And I'm really delighted today to have as our guest the wonderful Isha Shakir. Isha is a barrister at Henderson Chambers in London. I've been really looking forward to this discussion with her because she's really one of the real bright stars at the bar. And I know she's got a huge career in front of her. She's already done lots and lots, and I'm going to introduce you to her by saying a few words about her. So Isha, as I mentioned, is a barrister at Henderson Chambers. She has a broad practice, both litigation and arbitration, and inquiries of which she has considerable experience. And interestingly she's involved currently in the Dieselgate group litigation and amongst other things in the post office inquiry. It's a really great experience and amongst her areas also she can include insolvency and various aspects of commercial law practice. So it's really really good to have you on Isha. I'm really looking forward to our discussion. Let me ask you this to get us going then. Tell us a little bit about your background, because this is about heritage. So tell us a little bit about your, well, first of all, maybe your family's background, your own personal background in terms of your journey to where you are today as a, as I say, a bright star at the bar and why you chose to do law and ultimately also why you wanted to become a barrister.
Isha: Sure. Well, firstly, it's an honour to be on your podcast, and it's an honour to meet you. In terms of my family's background, so my granddad emigrated here to the UK from Pakistan, and he chose this little town called Bishop Auckland in County Durham to settle down. He had my dad, so my dad is first generation English, and my mum is Pakistani, and that's my background so I grew up in Bishop Auckland which is in County Durham next to Newcastle that's the accent I'm trying to retain my accent in a form of defiance.
Gautam: You should be very proud of it you should be very proud of that accent.
Isha: I am I'm very proud of it I am and so I guess where I started was you know growing up in Bishop Auckland and it's quite serious from the get-go because I'm the only ethnic minority in my school and also in my town and I'm the only visibly Muslim person there too and as I grow up I realized that during school and you know when I walked to town there is a lot of resistance against who I am and my identity in the form of Islamophobia, racism and it was quite intense growing up because you know I can tell you my first memory of primary school is being called dirty sat on a bench crying and I told the teachers about this and this is like a reoccurring story in my life is that I do tell people and nothing is done and I'm told to have thicker skin I think that was the sort of starting point for me to go internal and to gain this resilience and strength from myself from my faith and to then embrace my identity years later, which was the cause of so much pain growing up. And just moving on to secondary school, it was no better. In fact, it was a lot worse because, I mean, kids at that age are very judgmental. But when incidents happen, like terrorist incidents or whatever, I would be called a terrorist. I'd be told it was my fault. I'd be spat on. One of the main incidents was that a teacher drew the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, on the board. And thought that was okay and a funny thing to do. And this is like, this is the background that I guess created who I am. And another sort of pivotal moment, I think, in my life was a careers advisor. You know, I went to a state school. I'm the first in my family to eventually go to university and the first in my family to have a proper profession in that sense. And I was really motivated growing up to go to uni and I wanted to do that so I told that to my careers advisor and she said to me that I wasn't smart enough to go to university and I should do a beautician course in the local college instead and that was her advice to me without looking at my grades without assessing my aspirations without knowing anything about me I was stereotyped into being a beautician and then even more heartbreaking is when I leave the this meeting this awful meeting and I talk to my school colleagues and they say that they were told the exact opposite that they were told to go to university and to aim high and I just thought that is systematic racism that I've had to come across and it took, it actually devastated me for about a week. And I went home and I was crying and my parents were asking me, you know, what's, what's going on? Come on, tell us. And then I told them, and that is, I think. The support that I received from them is so important in my life because they just said to me, don't let anyone tell you no. You go for it and you try. And it's going to be hard. It's not going to be easy. But if you work hard, if you hold on to your faith, you can accomplish things. And I really internalized that. And I was like, okay, these people are writing me off. They're underestimating me, which still happens to this day. And we'll talk about that. But it doesn't define my capabilities and my potential right I I can do I can change, opinions and I can aspire for great things so I used that incident as well to convince my family to let me go to a six form and outside of my little town in a different town called Darlington and I convinced them to let me travel on the bus for an hour and a half each day to get there. And that place was a bit more, it was more diverse. I didn't feel like the odd one out. And the teachers were really supportive. And I managed to get good grades at A-level and I got into York University. And as I started university, that careers advisor was still in the back of my mind. And I was thinking, I got in, that's great, but am I really smart enough to be here? And I just had to battle against that self out and I just tried really hard. I worked hard. You know, my faith comes into it because I truly believe that I'm protected. There is a plan for me and that all I have to do is try my best and everything else will work out. That's what I believe in. And it did. So with York, I think someone was looking after me and trying to really correct that, in a dialogue that I had with that careers advisor and every single person that told me that I wasn't good enough or that I don't deserve to be here because I ended up getting the highest academic grade three years in a row at York. And I graduated top of my year. and I think that that moment was just the seal on all of that negativity of the past that actually I am smart enough to be here I do deserve to be here and I can accomplish great things at York I was told about well actually I can phase in when becoming a barrister was you know on my radar because growing up I didn't know what a barrister was and there's that that cliche of barrister/barista and I honestly did not know the difference and obviously I knew I knew about lawyers things but I didn't know about the bar and how I came across that was in my first year of university I randomly signed up to become a witness in just this you know the advocacy training process they do for barristers to just refresh their skills like CDP and I was playing this witness who couldn't see very well and I was just acting at this point. And the senior silk who was training the other barristers said to me, you'd be very good at mooting. And I just smiled and nodded and I was like, oh, thank you. And I secretly hoped that mooting was a good thing because I had never heard of it. And I remember afterwards, I came off the stand. And I Googled what is mooting and I realized what it was. And I just threw myself into it because I thought, okay, well, let's give this a chance. Let's try. And as I did that, I discovered more about what being a barrister was because I was actually doing it, these little mock trials and cross-examination pieces and all of those things. And I realized that I really like advocacy. I really like complex legal problems. I was already dealing with that in my degree, sort of the law side of things. But it was the advocacy side of things that really came alive for me. And I felt electric every time I was on my feet. And I felt the idea of representing someone in court and speaking for people and for clients. It was amazing to me and something that I truly believe that I was created to do. I think another part of my passion for advocacy came in a little bit earlier than that because I decided to do something about this Islamophobia problem, to do something about the racism in my little town. I mean, my town has annual marches, which is Bishop Auckland against Islam. And it is a very, very difficult place to grow up in with someone like me to grow up. So I know for a fact that there are more people like me coming into that town and my sister was there, my cousins. And so I wanted to try and make a shift, make a change in the way that I could. And so I contacted my MP, this is again in my first year of uni, and just out of the blue. And one of my lecturers actually helped me put a letter together and that's when it actually gained traction because I had a professor backing me. And I arranged for me to go into primary schools and secondary schools and talk about respect and Islam, just clearing up the misconceptions that the children may have, but also just about backing yourself and having confidence, but also doing so in a way that you are kind and you are uplifting other people, that you don't need to tear each other down because another person is different to. And the change that I saw in these students from when I first walked in and they were judging me because of how I looked to then at the end of the class when I pulled out the scarves and I'm like does anybody want to go and everybody puts their hands up and they're telling me facts about Islam or tell me tell me stuff about Pakistan that I was telling them it was just such an eye-opening experience of well actually maybe I have a skill here that I can I can convince people and change their opinions of me in an eloquent way. And if I can get through to the 10-year-olds, maybe I have a skill to get through to the judges and go further. So yeah, that was sort of the start of becoming a barrister for me in my first year. And then also coincidentally, and I think this is like the true love story in my life, is that I randomly again signed up to an event at Henderson Chambers in my first year of uni after I'd found out a bit more about the bar and I met barristers there and I truly I just liked the sort of friendly vibe I didn't feel like they were inaccessible to me and I think I had this like youthful overconfidence because I didn't know the world and I just went in there thinking that And not having the doubts and the sort of scared feeling that maybe I should have had. I done more research and found out about who I was actually speaking to. I just went in there, smiley, happy, and trying to make conversation with other barristers and people there. And then I did my mini pupillage there in my second year of uni. And again, I loved it. And then from that moment, I was like, Henderson's where I want to be at. And that's where I focused all my attention. After graduating from my undergraduate degree, I got into Oxford to do the BCL. And again, that was another marker for me that I'm pretty smart and I can do this. And during my BCL year, which was a very tough year, it was during COVID. So I got the first year I got to experience the sort of feel of being at Oxford. And then yeah the first term and then the second term and third term it was just locked down so I didn't really get that experience but during Oxford I as a trial run applied for pupillage at Henderson and I got it I got it first round so I said to myself it's a really intense year let's just see it as a trial run let's just see where we go to but it was it it was just meant to be. And that's how I got to Henderson.
Gautam: Well, you know, that's an absolutely sensational. Account you've just given me and given our listeners. And in fact, we could just stop the podcast there now, which we're not going to do, by the way. And that would just be the most inspirational section I think we could ever hear. Thank you hugely for sharing that story. It was very personal. It was very raw. That's what it's all about. And genuinely, you were born to do this. What you've said, Isha, it resonates not just with me, but with so many people. In all those naysayers, and I really hope, and I know the chances are very remote, to say the least, but that careers advisor who tells you to do a beautician's course, I really wish he or she could listen to this podcast and look at you now. I really wish they could because these naysayers, and there are lots of naysayers like this, I had... Trust me, I had a few naysayers in my time, and I'm, of course, a lot older than you, but I remember, and I'll share this with you. I was 17 and doing my A-levels. I'd just done my first year of my A-levels. And as you know, that's when you start to think about what you want to do for a degree. And I wasn't doing law as an A-level because very few people who do law actually do law as an A-level, as you know. And I wanted to consider doing a law degree. And I remember one of these teachers at my sixth form college in Northwest London, where I grew up, said, well, I'm not sure a career in law is for you, and really tried to put me off. And I asked, Well, why not, right? Because when you're a product of immigration, which people like you and I are, and many of us are, those two words should be at the forefront of our mind all the time. Why not? And I was brought up that way by two loving parents. They're both up in the heavens now. But they always taught my sister and I to think, why not? So all those naysayers, I mean, you know, and there are lots of naysayers out there, But well done to you because I'm so proud to hear what you've said that, you know, despite all of that and despite all the prejudice, despite everything, it's like I said in the introduction, you are a real bright star and there are so many people. Who will come up through the system, being inspired by you. And I just loved hearing that. And, you know, let me turn to something then that spins out of that, which is, and you touched on this in your fantastic segment there, but about your heritage. And this is all, you know, that's very important because it makes us who we are. And all those things, family, faith, the example that we get set by our elders and the determination we gain from all of that and the values, not to say the languages that we can all speak as a consequence of that, because I dare say you and I are not just bilingual, we're trilingual. But in terms of all of that, tell us a little bit about, as we celebrate South Asian Heritage Month, why heritage is so important to you and what are some of the big things that it does for you to drive you every day of your life and your career?
Isha: That's a great question. I think who you are and where you come from are so intertwined. And I think that knowing that I have Pakistani heritage, I have, you know, one of the key players in my life was my nana, so my mom's dad. And one would think that you know, because of cultural stereotypes and things like that, he wouldn't be supportive of my career aspirations. But he was the one that was backing me throughout this whole journey. And every time I would call him over the phone, and that's one of the reasons why I know Udu and I know Punjabi, so that I can converse with him growing up. And he would just, you know, he would always check in on how I'm doing, you know, what's the next step? Are you there yet? This support that I got from this, you know, strong man, who was, you know, full of faith and full of light was such an important influence in my life and knowing about his story as well. And he had to, you know, overcome so many challenges in his life to get where he was. And same for my parents and my wider family. We've all had to struggle. We've all had to, you know, put our big pants on and keep going. And the fact that you know my granddad chose to move here I'm so grateful to him for that and I love hearing about his stories about how he only had 20 pounds when he got here didn't know what to do and he found some friends and all of these things I just think that gratitude. For where I come from plays such a big part in who I am today and that is really important and And the skills that it comes with, I can tell you a funny story of me turning up for an emergency injunction in Clerkenwell and Shoreditch County Call. And on the other side were litigants in person who also spoke and they didn't speak any English. And the case was essentially about us as the local authority going in and preparing damp and serious things in the home for their children and they didn't understand what was going on. And so I was there in the hearing and before the hearing translating and being a barrister and achieving the right outcome for both parties. And so on the court record is my Urdu, which is which is quite cool but but i remember there's this is saying to me that you know if i wasn't there with my skills that could that could have gone horribly wrong because there was such a miscommunication between the judge and the parties and so it is a strength and i think anybody who's listening to this that has some difference that has a rich heritage because it is a it is a strength should truly embrace that. And starting off how I did with truly when I was growing, you know, resenting being different and just wanting to fit in and getting penalized for it to this point now where I embrace my difference. I think it's my superpower. I love being Muslim. I love being Pakistani. I love being English. I love it all. And I think that's the stage that every person should get to because we are made up of inspiration people around us and we can draw on their strength and the culture and the beauty of it. I mean, when I go to Pakistan and I eat the food and I wear the colorful clothes and I just feel such an embrace and what a privilege it is to have that side of me and have that beauty as well so it's something to embrace and and that's what heritage means to me.
Gautam: Again very very powerful and again really strongly hits me and will hit so many of our listeners because you know it's something that gives us a lot and it's only when we think about how lucky anyone is who's got a different heritage because we're all very proud to be British I mean I am very proud to be British, and I think it's the greatest country in the world. London's the greatest city in the world. I can go on and on and on. At the same time, I am empowered by the fact that I've got something else I can lean into so much, and my background is so incredibly important to me. And if anything, Isha, my reflections on it are that I probably understood just how important my heritage was as I got a bit older. Because I think it hits you when you get a bit older. It probably hit me when I had that naysayer at sixth form and my mom's words when I came back and told her, because my mom only began working part-time when my sister and I were well-established in school. I remember this conversation so well. I came back, my mom came back and I was at home And I said, I'd had this conversation and my mom's words were, you know, I've always told you why not, right? And you going to prove her wrong, right? And that's the, I can remember that conversation so well. And, you know, and I, so look, what you've said really resonates so strongly with me. And thank you again for being so honest about these issues. And, and, you know, I want to touch on one quick thing before I move into the final section of the podcast, which, and I, and as you may. Know Isha, I always like to end podcasts with more lighthearted conversation about hobbies and pastimes and fun things like that. So we'll come to that in a second. But I want to ask you one other thing that's really important to me, because I love championing women. And I particularly love championing women from an ethnic minority background, because the more advocates and champions that fabulously talented women can have from that background, the better. If you were to give some advice to an aspiring young girl or young lady who's thinking about entering the law and is a bit unsure about it, what little bits of advice would you give that person?
Isha: Another great question. I love this podcast. I think the advice I would give to any young girl is just be brave just be brave you can feel scared you can do it anyway and and dream big. You know you don't need to limit yourself and the true limits that we have in life are the ones that we put on ourselves sorry I'm just getting a bit emotional saying that but it's it's so true and for me when I when I decided I wanted to become a barrister and I was looking at chambers and I didn't see anyone like me in that position, I could have, and I know people have this feeling that there is no place for me there, that I don't belong, that this isn't right for me because no one who looks like me is there. But what I did and I encourage others to do is flip that around and say, well, I'll be the first. They'll look on that website and they'll see that there is a hijabi Muslim Pakistani woman there and and other people can see that of that same background that it is possible and that I can do it and so that's that's what's taken me through my career that yes I'm doing it because I think it's the best job in the world and I love that I love the intellectual complexities the public speaking and all of this but also I'm representing my community. And I'm trying to inspire them to do, as I said, be brave, think big, and just go for it.
Gautam: Wonderful. I mean, absolutely wonderful. And that's how it should be, right? That's how it should be. And I'm a firm believer that the only obstacles in our path are the ones that we allow to be there. We've just got to think, hey, we're here on merit. It's a meritocracy, despite what might happen sometimes and might be said sometimes. Life is and should be a meritocracy and having the pride in being different is good and so thank you so much for sharing those thoughts i mean i was i was really excited at the prospect of doing this podcast with you i'm even more excited having done the podcast with you and as we entered the final bit which is going to be about some fun stuff i'm truly in huge debt to you for being so candid and open and honest and raw about all of these things, because it's how it should be. So let me end on this note, right? You know, you're a busy young lady. You've got a great practice, and it's only getting even greater. You're destined for wonderful things, and one day you will be one of His Majesty's counsel. Of that, I have no doubt. And I shall look forward to that day with huge enthusiasm and keenness, I can assure you, Isha. But tell me this, what sort of hobbies do you have? What's your favorite interests and pastimes when you're not in practice as a barrister?
Isha: Well, thank you so much for your kind words. That means everything coming from you. so my hobbies it might surprise you but I know Thai boxing, Muay Thai. My dad was a Thai boxing instructor and so growing up I think there's footage of me being two years old trying to kick and punch things. Amazing I love it I love hearing that gosh I am surprised that I love it though I love it. So that's something that I do and I still keep up to this day you know I just think women should know how to defend themselves with one and number two it's such a good outlet for any of the tangled of emotions that we as human beings have right and so yeah that's that's something I do I also horse ride which is something that I love doing it's my happy place and I've been a horse riding since I was pretty much seven years old and that was something I was worried about actually moving from County Durham to London was whether I could keep it up or not because it's a bit more difficult to access, and because I was quite an experienced rider I didn't want to do lessons and things like that but just I'm so grateful because I found someone who has horses that she lets me ride them and train them up for her, So my weekends are spent going through forests, galloping through fallout forests. And I'm just in this sort of serene world of not thinking about law, not thinking about who I am and all the struggles that I have, but just thinking about how beautiful nature is and my connection that I have with horses. So that's another outlet for me. And then aside from those things, my faith, every day I'm trying to get better and being a good human being and becoming more grateful and giving out more and being more kind and so that's another I would say interest that I have too
Gautam: Well an amazing end to an amazing podcast with an amazing guest thank you so much for being such a wonderful guest I mean I I've genuinely loved doing this a podcast with you as someone who's done a few podcasts I've And I've been very fortunate to have spoken to many, many wonderful people. You truly are very much at the top of the tree. And I'm very grateful to you for being who you are and doing what you do, being the example that you are, striving to do such great things as you do, to be a great person, to be a great lawyer, because you can be both. You can certainly do both at the same time. And I'm also inspired by the fact that you're a martial artist, because I think, I mean, I generally mean this as we end this podcast. I think some of the most talented people in the world are mixed martial artists because you've got to be specialists in a number of disciplines and be very disciplined mentally and be very fit and be so resilient. And so, you know, it's one of like, I could carry on talking with you for ages, but I'll save that for when we meet in person. So let me say this again. And thank you so much, Isha, for being one of our podcast guests for this mini-series to celebrate South Asian Heritage Month 2025 and for being such a superb guest. So thank you and see you very soon, I hope.
Outro: Arbitral Insights is a Reed Smith production. Our producers are Ali McCardell and Shannon Ryan. For more information about Reed Smith's global international arbitration practice, email arbitralinsights@reedsmith.com. To learn about the Reed Smith Arbitration Pricing Calculator, a first-of-its-kind mobile app that forecasts the cost of arbitration around the world, search Arbitration Pricing Calculator on reedsmith.com or download for free through the Apple and Google Play app stores. You can find our podcast on podcast streaming platforms, reedsmith.com, and our social media accounts at Read Smith LLP.
Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular or lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker.
All rights reserved.
Transcript is auto-generated.
