What if RevOps stopped reacting to requests and started shipping a product? Dan Jiao, VP of Revenue Operations at Aircall, makes the case — and lays out exactly what that shift looks like in practice.
In this episode, Matthew Volm sits down with Dan to unpack the evolution from service-oriented RevOps to a full product model, the rise of GTM engineering, and the skills that will define the function's best operators over the next three to five years. They cover why AI doesn't make human judgment less important (it makes it more important), what the "AI admin trap" looks like and how to avoid it, and why vibe coding a command center might be the most differentiating thing a RevOps professional can do right now.
🎙️ Speakers:
- Dan Jiao, VP of Revenue Operations at Aircall — https://www.linkedin.com/in/danjiao/
- Matthew Volm, CEO & Co-Founder of RevOps Co-op — https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewvolm/
⏱️ Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction & Dan's background
1:20 - Dan's career path: chemical engineering → sales → RevOps
3:33 - The shift from service-oriented RevOps to a product model
6:08 - Is the RevOps product always technology?
8:22 - What is GTM engineering, and how does it relate to RevOps?
13:07 - The AI admin trap: is GTM engineering the new Salesforce admin?
17:39 - Skills for early-career RevOps professionals
20:59 - Skills for VP-level RevOps leaders
26:00 - What RevOps operators should start building today (vibe coding, command centers)
32:17 - Crazy GTM stories: penguins at a Vegas conference
35:35 - Closing thoughts
🔗 Resources:
- RevOps Co-op Podcast Library: https://www.revopscoop.com/podcast
- Episode 56: GTM Engineering — The R&D Arm of RevOps: https://revopscoop.com/podcast/gtm-engineering-revops
- Episode 102: The RevOps Skills Nobody Teaches: https://revopscoop.com/podcast/revops-soft-skills-career-growth
👉 Join the RevOps Co-op community: https://www.revopscoop.com/membership/membership-options
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