This episode covers a wide range of topics spanning Sam Harris controversies, Biden's final days, technology regulation, venture capital ethics, and an extensive deep dive into the historical origins and context of "Pizzagate." The episode runs approximately 3+ hours:
The Background:
Alex Marinos created a viral clip in 2022 from Sam Harris's appearance on the Trigonometry podcast where Harris discussed the Hunter Biden laptop suppression. In the clip, Harris appears to justify a "left-wing conspiracy" to suppress the laptop story to prevent Trump from winning, then walks back calling it "left-wing" because Liz Cheney is involved, then questions whether coordinating to suppress information even counts as a "conspiracy."
Recent Developments:
Key Analysis:
The hosts dissect Harris's pattern of "studied uninformedness" - deliberately avoiding detailed knowledge of topics while making strong pronouncements based on simplified narratives from preferred sources. Harris's approach to Elon mirrors his handling of the clip controversy: attack the messenger's credibility rather than address the substance.
Quote:
"What you are doing is that the source of information determines its truth. And he is basically saying that these people, which may be bad actors, maybe careless, sloppy people... He is then saying himself his own testimony, I sent Elon an email telling him that he is being manipulated by lunatics, by right wing. That is not the right way to start a conversation about what factually happened somewhere."
The Trump Assassination Attempt - Teleprompter Theory
Sam Harris's Claim:
On Bill Maher's podcast, Harris suggested Trump may not have been hit by a bullet at all, but rather by shrapnel from a teleprompter hit by the bullet. His reasoning: rifle rounds typically cause more damage than Trump's ear showed.
Problems with This Theory:
Hosts' Analysis:
This exemplifies Harris's pattern of deliberate under-informing himself. A simple image search would have debunked the teleprompter theory immediately, but Harris prefers to speculate based on his "intuitions about ballistics" rather than examine available evidence.
The COVID Bet Story:
Harris published a detailed account of his falling out with Elon, centered on a May 2020 bet about COVID cases. Key points:
Timeline Problems:
The hosts note:
"So all you now have when you actually realize that is a sequence of events and then an attributed sort of theory from Sam."
Harris's Framing:
Harris positions himself as the friend who tried to help Elon with security concerns (connecting him with Gavin de Becker for bodyguards), only to have Elon turn on him. He complains that Elon's attacks increase his own security concerns - the same Elon he once helped with security.
The Theranos Story:
Elizabeth Holmes ran a 15-year fraud claiming her company could do comprehensive blood tests from a finger prick. The company employed hundreds and released products that gave patients false medical information. Key investors included Kissinger and Mattis on the board.
Alex's Defense of VC:
The SBF/Platform Life Sciences Connection:
The Pattern:
Just as with Theranos, when major financial shenanigans emerge, they reveal networks of influence and questionable relationships that extend for years before being exposed.
Biden's Warning:
In his farewell address, Biden invoked Eisenhower's warning about the military-industrial complex to warn about a new "tech industrial complex" threatening democracy. He claimed:
The Timing:
Biden gave this speech the same week that:
Hosts' Analysis:
Biden's administration was the one coordinating with tech companies and using the EU as a workaround to impose content restrictions that the First Amendment prevents domestically. The "free press is crumbling" not because it's being suppressed, but because it's losing in free competition to alternative media.
Quote:
"The regular news media is crumbling in an environment where they are able to say anything they want. It's not that they are being suppressed. It's not that they're being hunted and prevented from saying things that are true."
The Constitutional Amendment Farce
What Happened:
On his last day in office, Biden attempted to declare the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) ratified as the 28th Amendment, despite:
The Move:
Biden essentially tried to "hard fork the Constitution" by executive declaration, leaving Trump to deal with the legal mess.
Comparison:
This is similar to Biden's TikTok ban - he signed the law requiring TikTok to divest by January 19, then announced he won't enforce it, leaving enforcement to Trump.
The Ban:
Biden issued a permanent ban on new offshore drilling in all areas except the Gulf of Mexico using an obscure provision in a law that allows presidents to "set aside" areas but doesn't explicitly allow bringing them back.
Why It Matters:
Hosts' Reaction:
"Credit where credit's due. At least Biden is, or at least his administration is being very clever with how they try to fuck Trump over."
Anthony Weiner and Andrew Breitbart's Triumph
The Initial Story:
Weiner's Denials:
Over a full week, Weiner maintained he didn't send it, while refusing to directly answer whether the photo was of him. He claimed it was a "prank" on his name and he wouldn't let it distract from his work.
The Most Significant Moment in American Politics:
Weiner scheduled a press conference where he was expected to admit to sending the photo and to other inappropriate online relationships. Before Weiner arrived, Andrew Breitbart walked to the podium and hijacked the press conference.
Breitbart used the moment to:
The Bigger Picture:
Weiner's scandal was part of Breitbart's larger campaign against what he saw as media corruption and one-sided coverage. Breitbart had explicitly identified John Podesta as his "mortal enemy" due to Podesta's role in narrative management and protecting left-wing organizations.
Breitbart's ACORN Success:
Before Weiner, Breitbart and James O'Keefe had pioneered a tactic with ACORN:
This "bait the adversary" tactic was Breitbart's counter to Podesta's own "deny and attack the messenger" strategy.
Important Preface:
The hosts make clear this is NOT an investigation claiming to prove criminal activity. Rather, it's an examination of why the "Pizzagate" story had more substance and legitimate questions than the dismissive "conspiracy theory" label suggests.
Part 1: The Podesta Connection
John Podesta's Background:
The Andrew Breitbart Time Bomb:
On February 4, 2011 (a year before his death), Breitbart tweeted:
"How prog guru John Podesta isn't household name as world class underage sex slave op cover upper defending unspeakable dregs escapes me."
This tweet sat dormant until the 2016 email leaks gave it new context.
Part 2: The Belgian Connection
The Dutroux Affair:
In the 1990s, Belgium uncovered a pedophile ring run by Marc Dutroux. Multiple young girls were kidnapped, held in hidden basement cells, sexually abused, and murdered. The case revealed:
Axel Vervoordt:
Part 3: The Marina Abramović Connection
Who is Marina Abramović:
Performance artist known for extremely bizarre, boundary-pushing work including:
The Email:
From the Podesta WikiLeaks dump, Tony Podesta forwards an email to John Podesta from Marina Abramović inviting them to a "Spirit Cooking dinner." At the bottom of Marina's email is her upcoming itinerary, including:
"November 6-22: Proportio, curated by Axel Vervoordt"
This directly connects:
Part 4: Tony Podesta's Art Collection
Washington Life Magazine Profile:
A 2015 profile of Tony Podesta's art collection reveals:
Biljana Djurdjević's Art:
This artist creates paintings of children with dead, soulless eyes in scenarios that appear:
Tony Podesta owns multiple works from this series and displays them in his home where he hosts parties.
Part 5: James Alefantis and Comet Ping Pong
Who is James Alefantis:
The Instagram Evidence:
When Podesta's emails leaked, internet researchers examined Alefantis's Instagram and found:
The Sex Stains Band:
A band that played at Comet Ping Pong used symbols in their materials that matched FBI documentation of pedophile symbols (specifically the "boy love" spiral triangle).
The Atmosphere:
Comet Ping Pong was known for:
Part 6: The Transformer Gallery Connection
What the Hosts Revealed:
James Alefantis serves as president of Transformer Gallery in DC. This gallery is part of the same art world network that includes:
Alefantis uses his art connections and pizza parties at Tony Podesta's house to maintain his position as one of DC's power players, despite being a pizza restaurant owner - an unusual position for someone on the "50 most powerful" list.
Part 7: The Clarification
What This Is NOT:
The hosts emphasize they are not claiming:
What This IS:
An examination of why people found the connections concerning:
The Name "Pizzagate":
The pizza connection came from:
What Happened:
On Sam Harris's Methodology:
"Sam doesn't know this because he hasn't read the... by the way, this timeline comes from a lawsuit that Hunter Biden submitted against the owner of the repair shop. Right? I'm not telling you like Bannon's timeline. I'm telling you Hunter Biden's timeline."
On Sam's Source-Based Reasoning:
"He trusts the conclusions of the sources and that's all he does is he goes, I need to prune my sources to make sure my sources are good so I don't actually have to think about it or read any of the shit."
On Venture Capital:
"It's a hits driven business. Okay. If you're a venture capitalist, your whole thing is like, we take 10 wild shots and like, we hope that one or two make it through... When people are accusing venture capitalists of making wild bets or whatever, they're literally accusing them of doing their job."
On Biden's Tech Industrial Complex Warning:
"Did we solve that the most, the most war hawkish president ever. Like he's given them hundreds of billions of dollars and he's like, remember how, you know, that guy was saying stuff? You know. Well, I disagree with him on the substance, but he had a good turn of phrase that I would use."
On Google vs. EU:
"Google basically now knowing that the US is no longer going to be supporting this stuff, basically told the EU to go fuck itself because, you know, what are they going to do about it?"
On the TikTok Ban Law:
"Who passes a law that comes into effect on 19th of January?"
Andrew Breitbart on John Podesta:
"John Podesta, who is my mortal enemy. This guy runs ThinkProgress... This was all an attempt. The strategy in the first weekend was to try and say if we attacked Breitbart, then by the time we get to Tuesday, it will no longer be there."
Cenk Uygur on Breitbart (Before Weiner Confession):
"Andrew Breitbart, the conservative clown who thinks he's a journalist, what a joke. Has done another fraudulent story as usual... it's totally and utterly untrue."
Breitbart's Tweet (February 2011):
"How prog guru John Podesta isn't household name as world class underage sex slave op cover upper defending unspeakable dregs escapes me."
On James Alefantis:
"We are not talking about some immigrant family that has a pizza place... A poor person caught up in nothing. They have absolutely no stake in the game. They have nothing important to just a bystander getting swept up in an Internet frenzy. Totally different than a person who's really well connected."
On Tony Podesta's Art Shows:
"If you've ever dreamed of strolling through a museum with a slice of pizza and a glass of wine in hand, you need to befriend super lobbyist Tony Podesta."
On the Kill Room Jokes:
"Sort of morbid humor. Yeah, it's fine. I make morbid jokes decently, frequently. But when you have the same one recurring and you keep referring to the place that you work as having kill rooms and things like that, it gets a little sketchy."
Overall Structure/Flow
The podcast has a distinct three-act structure:
Act 1: Sam Harris and Contemporary Controversies (0:00 - ~1:20)
Act 2: Biden's Last Days and Tech Policy (1:20 - ~1:40)
Act 3: The Pizzagate Deep Dive (1:40 - ~3:30)
The flow demonstrates the hosts':
Throughout the episode, a recurring theme is how influential figures like Sam Harris maintain plausible deniability by deliberately remaining uninformed about details that would complicate their narratives. Harris:
This allows him to make strong claims while retreating to "I'm just speculating" when challenged.
Alex points out that Harris's approach amounts to the genetic fallacy - determining truth based on the source rather than the evidence. When Harris tells Elon "you're being manipulated by right-wing trolls who gave us Pizzagate," he's:
This is the same tactic used to dismiss Pizzagate questions - focus on the most extreme claims and the messenger, never address the actual documented connections.
Andrew Breitbart emerges as a central figure who:
His "bait the adversary" tactic (release evidence gradually, let them lie, expose the lies) was specifically designed to counter Podesta's "deny and attack the messenger" strategy from the Clinton era.
A significant insight is how high-end art serves as:
The connection between Podesta, Abramović, Alefantis, and Vervoordt isn't primarily through pizza or politics - it's through the art world. This provides plausible explanations for associations while also raising questions about shared values.
The Pizzagate story demonstrates why "just asking questions" gets such a strong reaction. When you have:
Even asking questions gets labeled "conspiracy theory" because engaging with the questions legitimizes the inquiry. The standard response is:
Biden's last-minute actions reveal a sophisticated understanding of:
These aren't random acts - they're calculated moves to constrain Trump's options and force him to spend political capital on legal battles rather than implementing his agenda.
A crucial insight is how the US government used the EU to impose restrictions that the First Amendment prevents domestically:
Google and Facebook calling the EU's bluff only works because Trump is incoming. Under continued Democratic leadership, the companies would have faced other pressure to comply.
The Comet Ping Pong Instagram posts present a challenge for both sides:
For Dismissers:
Why would someone making repeated jokes about child coffins, kill rooms, and murder at their workplace while also being connected to people collecting art of abused children?
For Believers:
Gallows humor exists, especially in hypersexual communities. The posts could be deliberately provocative insider jokes with no criminal meaning.
The hosts' position: These posts, combined with everything else, warranted investigation rather than dismissal. The fact that asking questions was immediately labeled conspiracy theory prevented any serious examination.
The hosts make clear they've presented connections and patterns, not proof of crimes. They note:
The point isn't to prove guilt but to show why "Pizzagate" had more grounding than typically acknowledged, and why the coordinated shutting down of inquiry raises its own questions.
This episode demonstrates the hosts' core mission: examining stories that mainstream media dismisses or covers inadequately. The three-hour runtime allows for the depth needed to properly contextualize complex issues.
Central Tensions:
Truth vs. Narrative Management:
The Sam Harris analysis shows how narrative control often matters more than factual accuracy. Harris's method - trusting sources over evidence, attacking messengers over engaging arguments - exemplifies how "respectable" discourse avoids uncomfortable questions.
Power vs. Accountability:
From Biden's last-minute maneuvers to Podesta's decades-long influence, the episode explores how power operates through networks of mutual protection. The art world connections, the media apparatus, the political machinery - all serve to insulate powerful figures from accountability.
Investigation vs. Conspiracy Theory:
The Pizzagate segment directly confronts the weaponization of the "conspiracy theory" label. By methodically documenting actual connections, the hosts show why dismissiveness prevents legitimate inquiry. The question isn't whether every wild claim is true, but whether patterns of association warrant investigation.
Speech vs. "Fact-Checking":
Biden's farewell warning about the end of fact-checking reveals the real battle: who decides truth? The tech companies' rejection of EU mandates represents a power shift away from institutional gatekeepers toward distributed sense-making.
The Breitbart Question:
Andrew Breitbart's 2011 tweet calling Podesta a "world class underage sex slave op cover upper" hangs over the entire story. Either:
The fact that this tweet sat unexplored for years, then suddenly seemed relevant, then got immediately dismissed as conspiracy theory, encapsulates the challenge of truth-seeking in a managed information environment.
The Takeaway:
The episode doesn't claim to solve mysteries or prove crimes. Instead, it documents that:
Whether this adds up to proof of wrongdoing or just uncomfortable coincidences, the hosts argue, should be determined by investigation, not dismissal. The fact that investigation became impossible - that even asking questions marked you as a conspiracy theorist - is itself revealing about how power protects power.
