Today I'm speaking with author and psychotherapist Estelle Frankel to talk about one of the most paradoxical spiritual truths: that wisdom grows when we allow ourselves not to know.
Estelle shares insights from her book The Wisdom of Not Knowing, weaving together depth psychology, Kabbalah, Buddhism, and the simple human longing to grow into who we’re becoming. We talk about:
Why uncertainty is not a threat but a doorway into wonder
The spiritual and psychological “octaves” of not knowing
How asking better questions can reshape your leadership and inner life
What depth psychology and mysticism reveal about change, fear, and resilience
The dangers of spiritual bypassing and why our parts deserve compassion
How trust, hope, and curiosity help us navigate upheaval
The powerful question: What is the question your life might be an answer to?
Estelle’s wisdom is tender, surprising, humbling, and full of depth. This is a conversation for anyone living through ambiguity, transition, or calling.
Resources & Links:
The Wisdom of Not Knowing by Estelle Frankel
More about Estelle: EstelleFrankel.com
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Chapters
00:00 — Opening & Welcome
04:33 — Estelle’s Story and Background
07:50 — Certainty, Crisis, and Becoming
10:40 — Living with Uncertainty
13:01 — Listening and Beginner’s Mind
14:59 — Psychology, Spirituality & Integration
18:45 — The Stages of Not Knowing
21:52 — IFS and Self-Compassion
28:18 — Wonder and Awe
31:40 — Mystery, Humility & the Ungraspable
35:35 — Hope and Resilience
38:20 — Trust and Repair
41:27 — Estelle’s Work & Closing
