Interview with Executive Director of Aspiration Tech which helps nonprofits use technology
TRANSCRIPT
Speaker 1:You're listening to k a Alex Berkeley 90.7 FM, university of California listener supported radio. And this is method to the madness coming at you from the Public Affairs Department here at Calyx celebrating the innovative spirit of the bay area. I'm your host aliene czar. And today we have Alan Gunn joining us, the executive director of aspiration tech. What's up? Got Her. How you doing? I am well thank you. Thanks for coming to the studio today. Um, and um, uh, Alan is the a r u founder. I am not, you know the founder, but you're the the the leader. I am [00:00:30] aspiration tech. So, um, the first question I always ask the leader of an organization like aspiration tech is, give me the problem statement. What are you trying to solve?
Speaker 2:Uh, there are a lot of people working to make positive change in this world. Uh, there's a lot of technology in the world that we know today and the people making positive change in the world rarely are able to make effective use of technology. There's a range of reasons for that from they don't prioritize it to, they get taken advantage of. And I have a somewhat embarrassingly [00:01:00] specific, uh, preoccupation with really focusing on what we call preventive tech care, helping those who are working for social justice to use technology in sustainable ways that supports their mission as opposed to detracting from it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well that's very concise. Thank you. It's interesting cause I have a little bit experience of this and it's, it's this huge gap between the Social Justice Entrepreneur, I like to call them, who have this really incredible vision and passion. But when you get down to the nuts and bolts of the execution, there's a big gap. [00:01:30] Absolutely. And so how many, um, or tell me first of all, how did aspiration tech come come about? How did this organization get created?
Speaker 2:Aspiration was founded in 2001 our founding board chair, Jonathan Pizer, and I'm Melissa Pale Thorpe, was the founding director. They realized that there were not appropriate market dynamics to get the need of nonprofit software created. And so aspiration was initially founded with the idea of actually creating the missing software applications for the U S nonprofit sector. And then, uh, the vision [00:02:00] became more global. Uh, the, the organization sort of realized that as a tiny us NGO, they weren't about to go writing enterprise software. And so, uh, I came in a few years later and sort of reshaped the mission around sort of a different approach to building that same technology capacity.
Speaker 1:Okay. And, um, so tell us a little bit about, uh, your client base today. Like how does, how does it work? Have someone come and get services from aspiration tech?
Speaker 2:Oh, the simple answer is they ask. Um, we work, uh, with a very broad and diverse [00:02:30] set of stakeholders. We do about half our work in the U S and about the rest, uh, outside the u s around the world. Uh, and we work, as I describe it across the so-called, uh, nonprofit technology supply chain. Grassroots NGOs call us up all the time. One of our most subversive offerings is a free proposal review service. So if a tech vendor has written you a document saying they'll charge you x dollars for deliverable Y, we'll take a look at it and we'll tell you if we think it's a fair deal, we'll look for the hidden intellectual property [00:03:00] clauses and Gotchas and lock-ins. The sad story I tell a lot, because it's true, there's a Bay area nonprofit that we've worked with that uh, the director was leaving and signed a five year, 5,000 a month web hosting contract.
Speaker 2:And if you know anything about web hosting, that's a bit high. 500 x exactly. And so, yeah, that's $300,000 down the drain just because they didn't have somebody look at that proposal and didn't put a, an opt out into the contract. And so yeah, I mean, so does [00:03:30] this kind of stuff happen a lot? It does. One of the things that's been most disturbing, I started as an accidental nonprofit techie. I was a silicon valley guy back in the 90s and when I first saw the web, I was like, this could be big. And so I started thinking about how all my Greenpeace housemates and all my other tree hug and friends might use the web. I specialized in criminally ugly websites in the nineties I could build those by hand at volume. We all, we all do that. I look back and I'm proud of my flushing animations and other poorly, poorly conceived design judgments.
Speaker 2:But I'm, [00:04:00] as I've come to sort of make it a full time job. The thing that has really struck me as most unfortunate is that every level of the market, there's predators. We maintain what we call a clueless vendors list of all of the people that actually misrepresent their services have hidden lock-ins or otherwise exploit the knowledge differential when they're trying to deal into this market. Wow. It's mind blowing that someone would be so cynical to be, you know, be a Predator on nonprofits. But I guess that there's a, [00:04:30] there's someone for every kind of angle out there. There is. So let me ask you about, um, you see so many different, um, business models and, and uh, nonprofits. What is the biggest gap that you see in the tech stack of all these people coming to you needing help? The great unsolved problem of the nonprofit universe, and this is global, is the a supporter database.
Speaker 2:Uh, I point out that there's several hundred of these out there and all of them, pardon my French suck. They are just um, brittle. [00:05:00] Uh, some of them are extremely uh, shortsighted in what they let you do. Their extensibility is limited, but most of them simply don't do what nonprofits want to do. And there is this ongoing tension in nonprofit technology about do you bend to fit the tool or do you keep looking until you find a tool that fits the way you do what you do? So that's one great unsolved problem. I think now you're talking about like, um, a CRM type thing for, for donations. Something as simple as a constituent relationship [00:05:30] management system. It is astoundingly difficult for grassroots nonprofits to find inappropriate one a, the most powerful ones out there are sold by some of the most predatory vendors. I can't say enough non-positive things about Blackbaud, which is a company that deliberately locks nonprofits in, charges them hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and just exploits the fact that nonprofits need fundraising and CRM tools. Wow. And is that their primary focuses on nonprofits. Wow. So, um, when you
Speaker 1:come in and you're looking at like someone asked for [00:06:00] your help, what's the process for, uh, kind of the assessment of what [inaudible]
Speaker 2:they need? It's a good question. It's very dialogue based and we, our belief is, uh, technology is tragically almost all the time seen as a tech problem. And our belief is that it's always a people problem. And my background between Silicon Valley and what I do at aspiration, I worked for a great organization called the Ruckus Society and got a lot of exposure both there and living in a Greenpeace house. Two principles of community organizing. And so what we work with people to do [00:06:30] is to treat their technology challenges as community organizing opportunities. And by that I mean treats your users as your community members, arguably your marginalized community members. And so much as they don't tend to really get any voice in the technology they use. They tend to get told what tools they're gonna use and it tends to be the wrong tools for what they're trying to get done.
Speaker 2:So we work with whoever is what we lovingly call the accidental tech lead or accidental tech decision maker to really get them into an engagement stance and a dialogue process where they actually talk [00:07:00] to the people that need the tools they're trying to identify and treat it as an organizational development growth opportunity rather than just a go to Walmart and get a new thing shopping spree. And that turns out to be a fairly effective model to teach them to fish. Is that tired? Uh, phrase goes, it's really fun to get people into a stance of believing they can actually do their own tech planning.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Well, we're talking to Alan Gunn, he's the executive director of aspiration tech, a San Francisco based nonprofit that's focused on helping solve tell tech challenges for nonprofits [00:07:30] in the bay area and beyond. And um, that sounds like a pretty, um, people intensive engagement process. So tell me a little bit about the aspiration tech organization. Like who, who is it besides you?
Speaker 2:It is seven of us. We're based in San Francisco at 16th and mission street. We run a happy little workspace called The San Francisco nonprofit tech center and have some great housemates. They're with us. Freedom of the press foundation, open whisper systems, upwell, Ruckus Society, peer to Peer University. [00:08:00] So it's a real fun nonprofit tech space. And uh, we work on a range of things. We've got folks that work on so-called human rights technology, helping people to think about digital security, others who work on capacity building across the state of California. Uh, it's easy to get volunteer tech support here in San Francisco. In fact, too easy, far too many people over deliver overly complex technology solutions. Uh, but our passion is the central valley in the rural parts of the state. So we do as much work as we can in Fresno, Sacramento and, and [00:08:30] down highway five. Basically. We've done a number of events at Coachella and places where you don't normally see a real density of tech folks. We're trying there to really help build local tech skills and really tried to build a statewide network of people that share tech, uh, in ways that we think are sustainable.
Speaker 1:So, um, as you go through that, you know, you've written this amazing man has fit manifesto online that I think is really great. I want to ask you some questions about it. And one of the things that you just mentioned is taking concept of applying technology to scale organizations and make them more [00:09:00] powerful, um, to places that maybe this isn't something that they're used to. Um, so you have one in your manifest. So you talk about, um, the language for the end user, which, you know, in my experience is so critical. So tell me a little bit about that part of your ethos here of how do you, how do you engage in a way that's not scary to the executive director of WHO's focused on social justice issues and not the latest Tech Gizmo?
Speaker 2:Great question. Um, our analysis, uh, we, we refer to it as, as what we call language [00:09:30] justice. And the idea is that if you look at power and class and privilege dynamics with regard to how technology plays out in this sector, technologists are uniquely privileged class and part of their privilege lies in the fact that they use this specialized language that marginalizes virtually everyone else. They'll drop some jargon, use an acronym, and they do it with a disdain that sort of conveys a don't bother asked me about this, you'd never understand it. Sort of a Hubris and so we work with organizations and activists and we say claim, claim your power, [00:10:00] claim your language power and describe what you think you need technologically in your language. Don't feel like you need to say http. Don't feel like you need to say database, but really try to focus on the strategic things you're trying to get done and the outcomes that you're trying to achieve.
Speaker 2:One of the myths of technology, this is both in the nonprofit world and the broader world. A lot of people think that tech knows what you want and knows what you need and can do what you need. I'll go out the refrigerator and the microwave and the sad truth [00:10:30] about software and nonprofit technology in particular, it doesn't. And so we try to get people not to assume the tech will magically deliver a solution, but instead to get them to think strategically about the outcomes they're trying to achieve, the strategy that they'll use to get to those outcomes. And then last, the role of technology in those outcomes. We keep all of the dialogue and the vocabulary of the end user, but put it in formats where that same vocabulary makes sense to the techies. We've got sort of a universal format for describing what tech should do that is designed [00:11:00] both to be readily usable by those writing or delivering solutions, but also fully understandable by those little actually have to use them.
Speaker 1:Well, it sounds like your engagement process is pretty well defined that you've, you really thought about it. You guys have been doing this for over a decade, it sounds like. So tell me a little bit about how that works. So if someone says I need help and they come to you and you're going to start talking to them in a language is not tech, but how far do you guys go? Do you guys actually implement the technology or do you just a consulting company or what are you guys,
Speaker 2:we don't, we lovingly call ourselves pre procurement. Uh, but we'll stay with you all the way through. And [00:11:30] so what we try to do there, there is the other pathology I've seen over the years. People who do social change work are passionate, shockingly about social change. And so when, when you're talking to them about technology and explaining that it's going to take some time, they get fidgety in the big sense of fidgety. They're not happy with that. And when you say, Hey, if you want to do this right, it's an organizational commitment. It requires focus, they go nuts. And so we have a one step, a time model. We try to get them to focus on who will use the technology and then how they'll use it. And to the community organizing [00:12:00] paradigm. We actually get them to get some of their users actively involved in the process. We run live events where we actually get users to react to technology plans and beat them up in a loving way. And so the idea is to really walk folks through the actual visualization of what the tools will do before they pay the money before they get locked in.
Speaker 1:So you guys are really generating the, the architecture and requirements of what the organization is gonna spend its money on to go implement. But then you guys step back, someone else is going to go actually [00:12:30] implement it, but you're there as a consultant throughout.
Speaker 2:Exactly. At that point, if I can use a boxing metaphor, we then become the trainer in your corner. You're out there, Mano a Mano with somebody that you've got to contract with to make your website or your database or your other application. Uh, there's a certain game theory to dealing with technology vendors and so we basically coach around that. A good example would be, uh, when you're putting out a request for proposal, many earnest nonprofits will actually put the new number of their full budget. They'll say, we only have $30,000 [00:13:00] to do this. Our first coaching advice is don't say 30,000, save a little bit, come in a little bit lower. If you put out a proposal request for 30 K, they'll all come back at 29, nine 99. And so we tried to teach people to sort of keep some gas in the tank and then once projects get going, show them how to track progress and hold vendors accountable. Most vendors disappear into a void and say, oh, it'll be ready at some point. We try really hard to get early engagement around the deliverables so that [00:13:30] the nonprofits know they're getting what they want and they correct errors earlier in the process.
Speaker 1:And Are you advocating for a certain type of, um, development methodology like agile, like in a rapid iterative process?
Speaker 2:We describe a lot of what we do is grassroots agile. Um, we, we use that term only when it's appropriate to use it. But the concept in the agile software methodology of iterating and pivoting those words drive me crazy, but they're useful words. Uh, and so we try to get people to do minimum viable versions of things. I often described nonprofits, [00:14:00] they have a technology procurement ethic that parallels what people who live far, far out in the country do when it shopping time. They go into the city and they pack that vehicle is full of stuff as they can so they don't have to go back to the city anytime soon. And that doesn't work with tech procurement. If you do the, I want my website with every bell and whistle now you get what we call bloatware. You get technology that doesn't do what you want and it's hard to drive because it's big and it's complicated. So we try to focus on minimalism. Uh, when in doubt, leave [00:14:30] it out. And just a general sense of what we lovingly call subsistence technology because our belief is in the long haul, the less technology you're moving forward, if it meets your basic needs, that's a more strategic footprint than technology. That quote unquote does everything and costs you huge switching pain and legacy costs as you go to evolve with all these technologies are guaranteed to evolve.
Speaker 1:When in doubt, leave it out. I love that one cause I use that because that is an awesome one. All right, so we're, we're speaking with Alan Gunn, the executive director of aspiration [00:15:00] tech here on KLX Berkeley 90.7 FM. This is a method to the madness and I'm your host, Ali and Huizar. Another part of your manifesto that I really loved is, um, and it's something that I think is so important, yet people just miss it, which is the fact that it's not about the software is not about the hardware. It's about the data that, tell me about your kind of, you know, the importance you put on the data and, and why is it so important for nonprofits?
Speaker 2:Um, at the end of the day, all technology exists to manage information [00:15:30] in some sense, whether that is your digital music player or your radio or whatever. And one of the tragedies, and I think we point this out in that manifesto, software and hardware have cost associated with them. They are budget line items and most nonprofit budgets data rarely does your list of supporters, your list of, um, data samples from an environmental super fund site. No one really assigns a value to that. And so first order problem is that nonprofits think straight to dollars. And if it doesn't [00:16:00] have a number associated with it, they tend to undervalue it. The thing that has become much more of an issue since we wrote that manifesto is that with the proliferation of data acquisition capabilities, mobile data acquisition and crowd sourcing and cloud x, Y, z non nonprofits are now amassing data sets that actually put the people whose data is amassed at risk.
Speaker 2:And you know, we see that in so many ways, there are sort of urban legends that are at least part true. Uh, you know, examples that people that [00:16:30] do, um, heat maps, in other words, they do a Google map of places where hate crimes have occurred. The problem with that is that then gives the haters a pretty good clue on where they can go do hateful things. And so there really is a need to do what is often referred to as responsible data practices. We work with a great organization called the engine room that's moving forward a responsible data program. And the idea is to teach nonprofits that with large data sets comes large responsibility and again, when in doubt leave it out. And so as you're collecting data, uh, [00:17:00] there are many times when you want to be circumspect about how that data could be used against you or others in the future.
Speaker 2:One other example I use, uh, we worked with groups in the Central Valley that support undocumented folks, uh, in immigration advocacy work. Uh, we are quite sad when we discovered that they keep those folks contact info in Google spreadsheets and you're like, wow, that's just one Faeza or government subpoena away from getting some people deport it or worse. And so we try to make people aware that just because the tool is easy or just cause it's real nice [00:17:30] to see it all in those rows and columns. Uh, you'll want to think about what you're collecting and you'd just as importantly want to think about where you're storing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean it's such a, it's such a huge problem and it's relatively new to humanity cause we never had this much access to information exactly. But this week apple made their big announcement with their new products and one of them is I think health kit where there are research kit where they're, they've created a framework for um, uh, hospitals do research. You can download an app and they can monitor stuff that you're doing, but there's this huge, [00:18:00] you know, HIPAA issues with that as, you know, be putting all this health information on apple servers and they can do whatever they want with it. It's really a fascinating time to be an understanding kind of the privacy laws around data. Yup. Um, now as you look at all of the different, um, you know, engagements that you're doing, um, what are some of the biggest, uh, kind of, you know, um, transformational or disruptive technology trends that you're seeing and nonprofits that are really starting to, you know, you know, we're [00:18:30] talking about some of the negative side with some of the positive things. The technology is so amazing in terms of its rapid advancement. What are you seeing that wasn't around 10 years ago that is really changed, transforming how effective nonprofits and social entrepreneurs can be?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. Uh, I tend because we are technology minimalists, I tend to do less compellingly on questions like this. Uh, I'm old school in the sense that I think what really is a magical truth is that publishing a really effective website is now a well-defined process. I thank [00:19:00] the universe that a thing called wordpress came along and I thank the universe that when you outgrow wordpress, there's a thing called Drupal. And those two software packages really do help. The vast majority of grassroots and mid nonprofits publish extremely professional, powerful websites they have control of. I think you can overstate the ways in which mobile is changing the game. I think mobile, when you look at great organizations, you know Copwatch here in Berkeley that's now able to use mobile devices to hold police accountable. I think that's really exciting, but I think you know [00:19:30] whenever people ask me about exciting developments in tech, I I feel like the buzz kill do the glass half empty guy because mobile is a great example.
Speaker 2:The power of what mobile can do. If you look@anorganizationlikewitness.org the human rights organization based in New York, they worked with another nonprofit called the Guardian project to put together some incredible human rights documentations, tools and I've been attack and other groups from Palo Alto has also contributed some incredible software. But the problem is that when you're using those phones, you are giving them in [00:20:00] a tremendous amount of data. Anytime you're connected by an actual mobile signal. And so just as you are documenting and collecting, you are almost always putting yourself at risk. Certainly being surveilled and so we try to teach people, as trite as it sounds, there ain't no magic technology bullets. And with every technology opportunity you must model the present and future costs. So to your question, mobile technology is exciting. I'm grateful as someone focusing increasingly on the so-called human rights technology space.
Speaker 2:I think digital [00:20:30] security tools have turned a corner, and I think that there really is now a set of tools that really changed the game in terms of what human rights activists can do to be safe wherever they are. You'll never be fully safe. But when you look at where the tor browser has come to and the fact that you can browse online, when you look at what the Guardian software can do on mobile phones, certainly on Android, and when you look at what open whisper systems has done with their red phone and signal apps, which let you have genuine encrypted voice calls on your iPhone and android [00:21:00] devices. To me that's the most exciting thing because I think at the end of the day it's less about the sexy bell or the sexy whistle. It's more about the tools that really help you continue to be effective at scale.
Speaker 2:And I'm a bit of a cynic. I think we're in an interesting honeymoon period in the sense that I think right now we see technology as this wonderful, compelling thing. We live in silicon valley and butterflies fly out of, you know, SD ram cards. But I think in the future we really need to model for a fairly dark world where those tools are actually used to surveil us. They're locked down. People have to connect [00:21:30] to the Internet with a global unique numeric identifier. And so I think it's really critical as we use these tools to focus on those that give us longterm agency and longterm autonomy, the people's tools and to that extent, open source and free software. I believe that depending on Google and apple and Microsoft is death unto itself as overstated as that might sound to some people, those corporations have one thing they got to do well and that's make money for shareholders and God bless them or goddess bless them, they do damn well at that particular pursuit here and now.
Speaker 2:But [00:22:00] I think it's critical to understand that when the nonprofits get the freebies from Google or the freebies from Microsoft and one of these days, apple apparently is going to give some freebies to um, those are lock-in tricks. Those are surveillance hooks, those are addictions to unhealthy fatty technology. Foods then in the long run are going to kill the movement. And so we practice a, as an preach, if I may a certain rather strident voice around the fact that we need to be consuming open tools, free software technology controlled by the people, for the people, and making that our priority. [00:22:30] So instead of the shiny air or the newer or the more compelling, let us use the open and the free and the stable and maintain control of our longterm technology destiny.
Speaker 1:Well, it's a really a powerful, um, image that you're portraying there. And, um, I almost see like a dystopian future novel coming from you at some point in time. Like you, you've got the vision. We've got to, if only more about it. Only Cory Doctorow hadn't already written it. All right. So, um, we're talking to Alan Gunn. He's an executive director of aspiration tech [00:23:00] here on KLX Berkeley 90.7 FM. And uh, we're talking about is a nonprofit that helps other nonprofits use tech for good. And, um, so let's talk a little bit about, um, some stories. So, um, you're in a consultative capacity. You probably see all sorts of transformations from the time you come in to the time you leave working with a organization. So can you tell us a little bit about a couple of, you know, you know, transformations that you really love that are really encapsulate [00:23:30] the kind of mission of aspiration tech?
Speaker 2:I'd be glad to. Um, a story I tell a lot just because they're wonderful people that we adore and we're grateful we get to work with them. There's a wonderful organization in Fresno called Barrios Unidos and they work with young mothers to help balance, ah, workforce development and being able to stay employed with childcare, which is a tough double to pull when you're in your teen or early 20 years. And we first started working with them, goodness, about five years ago, our program director, misty Abila, uh, was [00:24:00] the lead on that. And the idea when we got there, they were really just trying to figure out technology basics and they bought into what we were selling in terms of the process that we advocate. The idea that you, you don't count on the tools, you count on your own ability to drive the tools and you count on the tools changing and trying to design processes that sustain your messaging, your engagement and your information management. And they now come to our events and train other nonprofits and everything they do and they've innovated in ways we could have never imagined. And so Yasmin and all [00:24:30] the folks at Barrios Unidos are an ongoing inspiration to us because they're doing the work that inspires us. They're actually making the world a better place and working with them to figure out appropriate tech is sort of really in a, in a nutshell, what aspiration exists to do
Speaker 1:to what kind of innovations have they done.
Speaker 2:They're using social media to reach people. They're using mobile phones and clever ways to, it's, you know, I think to a silicon valley ear, it's not that innovative, but I think when you're working with zero technology dollars, just the fact that they're sustaining some very compelling online communications [00:25:00] and really mobilizing people using technology to participate in, to be part of what they do, that to us is a big win.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that was a, the one of the, one of the questions I want to ask and follow up to kind of the biggest disruptors in the nonprofit space was social media, just because the democratization of the ability to access so many people I would think would be a great driver of fundraising capabilities for nonprofits. We've seen all sorts of crowdsourcing and stuff like that. Um, and so that's, you got to see that as a positive, right? I mean, in terms of new [00:25:30] developments or what's your take on that?
Speaker 2:Um, it's a tough question. I think social media is an astoundingly powerful infrastructure and I, you know, we certainly advise people to play in those fields, but I think it really depends on a lot of variables. One thing that the fundraising professionals, uh, of which I do not, uh, myself identify as one. Uh, the fundraising professionals will tell you, social media is not actually a really good fundraising mechanism. We certainly talked people down from there. I'm going to make this video and it's going to go [00:26:00] viral. Delusions on a regular basis. Um, if there's anything everyone that we work with agrees on what goes viral cannot be predicted. Uh, you know, and even upworthy, bless their souls, work overtime to drive the stuff that they drive viral. So I, you know, I think on a lot of levels it's important to really think about social media, like all of their technologies in the context of what it is or is not appropriate for a cautionary tale.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I keep coming back to the buzzkill side of your questions. Look at what happened with the Arab spring. A incredible use of Twitter and social media [00:26:30] to mobilize, to put people into Hater Square, to actually let the people's voice be heard. And then as soon as there was a government turnover, uh, they went back to those Twitter logs and they took those people and they put them in jail. Uh, and a close friend and ally of ours, ally still actually in jail, just got sentenced to a number of years in jail in no small part because of its online a writing. And so I think social media, it's a critical tool and it's a place, you know, one of things we say to people, meet people where your audiences are. A lot of people on Facebook, a lot of people on Twitter, but we encourage people [00:27:00] to really strike a healthy balance because Facebook is a great example of an incredibly powerful tool that will double back to bite you.
Speaker 2:There's a cautionary tale from a couple of years ago, uh, Facebook, uh, was, uh, I'm trying to think what year this was. I believe it was pre IPO target. The CEO of target was funding hate legislation in Minnesota, anti gay marriage stuff in Minnesota. And some earnest Facebook users set up a boycott target page, which Facebook instantly froze. It got 75,000 likes in one day. Facebook froze it because, [00:27:30] oops, target is a major advertiser on Facebook and you know, their whole patronizing language was that they wanted to maintain the civility of Facebook. You're like, dude, I can show you a lot of Facebook real estate where that is not being enforced, but a point being a, you know, there's that, that old phrase about, you know, whether or not it's going to work to, you know, use the master's tool to dismantle the master's house. I think we're really playing an unleveraged game to depend on Facebook and corporate social media to bring about change because at the point that we start to bring revolution to bear, they'll close our account. [00:28:00] And I think we need to be humble to the fact that the end of the day, social media is a revolution. It is an evolution. It is a powerful infrastructure, but we must distrust it as much as we leverage it because it's going to be taken away at the point that we use it effectively against power and against the corporations that control it. Especially the advertising corporations that generate the CR prices, the generate the dividends that make the 1% do what they do so wonderfully well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And all these companies, Twitter, Facebook, they're all, you know, publicly traded companies now at the holding of their own shareholders [00:28:30] and they're in the rat race of quarterly reports and all that stuff. So well said. So I wanted that close by. Um, you know, you've, you've stated a powerful case for, uh, you know, a, a manifesto that you have online of how to apply, you know, learnings to nonprofit world, which was probably quite a few people listening who that resonates with. So how can they get involved if someone wants to help aspiration tech's mission, how would you suggest they help?
Speaker 2:That's a great question. Uh, we do a lot of trainings [00:29:00] at our tech center. We welcome to come by their free trainings. We love to mentor mentors. You know, we, we don't presume to be the smartest men or in the room, but our belief is that, uh, as we teach others that they can go teach others how to do this stuff and what we consider to be sustainable ways. We as a set of movements and a movement supported by a set of techies with certain value orientations around social justice as opposed to whizzbang shiny. Um, we welcome folks that want to sort of grow in that mentoring role, that teacher role [00:29:30] and that tech support role. Because doing that well is really hard. And I say that as somebody who's been doing it for about 20 years. Um, we're available whether you're in California, on the other side of the world, uh, at aspiration tech.
Speaker 2:Dot. There's lots of ways to contact us. We can't always help, but we'll always try to find you someone who can, uh, for those that are more techie oriented. Our annual conference in Oakland, it's in November every year. The last full week before Thanksgiving, a the nonprofit software developers summit is a time where so-called open techies, people that are committed to making open [00:30:00] and free software and other technology come together to meet with one another. But at the end of the day, the answer to your question is, if you think we can help, call us up and we'll do our best to see if we, uh, can prove you're right.
Speaker 1:Right on. Well, I appreciate you coming in today, gunner and we, you've been listening to Alan Gunn, the executive director of aspiration tech, a San Francisco based nonprofit, really focused on helping other nonprofits utilize technology for good. You can check them out@aspirationtech.org and you, and this has been method to the madness on KALX Berkeley 90.7 FM. Thanks for listening. [00:30:30] Have a great Friday. Everybody.
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