Host Vishwanath Bulusu interviews brothers Ari and Andrew Cohen, creators and co-founders of Mr. Dewie's cashew milk ice cream. Started in 2011, their mission was to make a creamy, rich and delicious ice cream that also met their personal needs for being free of dairy, gluten and soy. Born and raised in Berkeley, CA, Ari and Andrew talk about how it was important for them to keep their brainchild local, and to use only natural, organic and healthy ingredients without any fillers, additives, preservatives, gums, or oils - truly homemade.
TRANSCRIPT
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Welcome to method to the madness and [inaudible] Berkeley 90.7 FM. This is your weekly public affairs show where we celebrate the innovative spirit of bay area. I'm your host Vishwa and our guest today, our brothers already in Andrew to help clear this and Co founders of Mr Dewey suction milk ice cream [00:00:30] like the studio guys. Thank you. Thank you. Great to be here. So let's start with what is Mr [inaudible]? Mr [inaudible],
Speaker 3:you eat well, you said it in the, in the beginning is that is a cashew milk based ice cream that was created in my kitchen in Oakland, California. I should mention that Andrew and I were both born and raised for brothers and were born and raised in Berkeley. Went through the Berkeley school systems and uh, and I actually went to UC Berkeley, uh, as a graduate student in a Master's program here, um, back in the 90s. That's the past. [00:01:00] Currently Mr Deweese is, as you said, as a cashew based ice cream cause dairy free, gluten free, soy free, peanut free. And it is a like a Gelato, a rich, creamy, dense, intensely flavorful, uh, ice cream and gelato like ice cream. How did the idea come about? Um, the idea came out of it, you know, Andrew and I always talk about the, uh, we sort of joke that the necessity is the mother of, of, of invention.
Speaker 3:In this case it was my own dietary issues that I found [00:01:30] back in, uh, the late nineties that I was lactose intolerant and also gluten and soy intolerant as well. And um, Andrew, uh, if I can speak for him as also like an intolerant and though he doesn't like to admit it as also probably Clinton sensitive as well, I'm slowly coming around. Um, and as a result of that I changed my diet and uh, and I, um, I started actually using nut milks, um, rather than dairy milk for say cereal and other things. And [00:02:00] um, started looking at that. The networks are actually really great. It was a Pecan and date nut milk that I put over hot cereals, which was really nice. Andrew, I have no background at all in, in business. And Andrew's a fantastic business person and salesperson and that's, that's his history. He started talking, we started talking about, uh, potentially packaging something like this and coming to realize fairly quickly that it really wasn't a viable product.
Speaker 3:But what we both realized and, and I was very, very curious about was that it looked like it could make a really great [00:02:30] ice cream. So we started, I started sort of playing with that, doing research on it to talking to people, um, actually getting an almond milk ice cream from another state because I was so curious about it, to just study it and started making them. And as you can imagine, the first batches of these things were actually really pretty cruddy. But Andrew being a, a lactose intolerance individual who was Jonesing for good ice cream and that's this si where I jumped in was Ari was sort of the
Speaker 4:[00:03:00] genius in the kitchen getting this concept invented really, because what I had found, I think what our, we had realized also is that the alternatives for ice cream in the stores, they weren't cutting it. They, they, they didn't feel that, that need, that w that I missed for ice cream. I won't name any names, but you know, some of these, um, well known brands that, not that they weren't good or couldn't have been good, some are better than others. Of course they, they didn't, um, say she ate the way ice cream did. And so the daunting [00:03:30] tasks that Ari had was to make something that was that good. And even though his first iterations seem to do, and I loved them, maybe I was just Jonesing so much, I didn't care what it was. They're, they're really bad. And yeah, he just, he couldn't get enough of them.
Speaker 4:And, and we joke because I knew they weren't right. I knew they weren't, they weren't good. And it sort of drove him crazy, but right. Cause the entrepreneur in me was like, okay, let's take it to market. Let's hurry up because someone else is going to be doing this. So that's good enough. [00:04:00] Every time I would say to him, this is, this is great. Like don't mess with this because I don't want this to change. This is too good to be true. He would mess with it and it would be better. And this was during the time when he was making alternative ice cream out of almonds that has since changed over to cashews. Yeah, there's a story behind that. But um, I'll let rd continue with what he was saying in the kitchen. Well, I just want to add to what Andrew was saying, which is that for the first two years at Mr Dewey's was an existence.
Speaker 4:[00:04:30] We were an almond milk ice cream. Oh, okay. That, and that's part of our story. So we started out as an almond milk ice cream. And as Andrew said, it took me about probably a year and a half of, uh, from, from the very beginning of just trying this out to getting to a point where we felt like this is, this is it, we can take this one to market. Um, and again, you know, I read all the ice cream books and, and, and tried to learn all the chemistry and really there's only three really elements that you can, you can pick up on in terms of how to make ice cream. And then I threw the book out [00:05:00] and after that, it was really just experimentation that we really, yeah, it was probably close to seven flavors. I want to ask something also that shouldn't, that one of the elements of this is that we had to make this, Ari had to make this, uh, without preservatives, without any additives, without stabilizers, without emulsifiers, with all those things that most about any gums was most other alternatives require, at least they claim to require, um, [00:05:30] to make it appear as if it is a creamy, like ice cream substance.
Speaker 4:So to make his, uh, task even more daunting was that he had to make it resemble ice cream without any of those elements as well. And that also I should just say is that that's also was part of the mission, which was that as I said, the, the impetus for this, at least the very beginning was, uh, my own health and the health of my family and Andrew, you know, as part of my family as well. And so for me it really was about, um, the mission was about making a [00:06:00] great ice cream, but also making a healthy ice cream one that did not have any additives or preservatives or gums or oils or any of those things that many, uh, commercial ice creams tend to have. And as Andrew said, that was, that made the task a little more, um, interesting I should say.
Speaker 4:But, uh, but that, that was important to me, uh, and to both of us. But it was really important to me that, that, um, we don't put any of those things in there because I really wanted it to be something that, that we as a family, that our standards are very high for what we added to that. So just to give [00:06:30] you an example of that, I mean, um, I'll pick a strawberry ice cream for example. Um, and this is representative of most of our ice creams. Um, it contains cashews, water, uh, strawberries, organic strawberries, organic vanilla, um, and organic cane juice, sugar. So there are five ingredients in there and that is it. If you've ever tasted ice cream before, you'll know you can, you'll know that they're, they're very flavorful and very rich and creamy. If you use enough cashews and you have the proportions correctly, you can make a great [00:07:00] ice cream without any of those other things, any of those preservatives or anything else.
Speaker 4:You started off with almonds. Yes. And then you end to cashew. Why and how did that change happen? We found that to make the, the almond version as um, smooth and creamy as possible. We had to find a way to get the almonds and they had to be, you know, California organic blanched almonds and they had to be crust so fine that when you were to add water to it [00:07:30] and a most of the fire that you wouldn't need to use a cheese cloth or any type of filtration to try to catch any of the other items that might be sort of the fibrous materials inside the almond. So we found a company who, um, satisfied that requirement. They make a nut butters and they also have a, um, an almond paste they can make for us. They take this raw almonds and they crush it into a paste.
Speaker 4:Let me just add to that very quickly, and that is to say that, um, when we started out doing this, uh, basically [00:08:00] what you do is you take almonds. I was literally blanching almonds myself, taking the skins off one by one and then putting it through, as Andrew said, a large, what they call a nut milk bag. So that you can so that it catches all the fibrous material. Oh and there was a point, I still remember this where Andrew and I were in my kitchen and we had made a larger batch cause we were going to do it two to do a test batch and so we had, you know you do a pint of it in the bags this big and you sort of bring it out and you get what you need. I found [00:08:30] a nut milk bag that I k the dimensions are probably like two feet by like three feet.
Speaker 4:That's how large the bag was. We filled it with milk and it was like, it was like playing the bagpipes. We were trying to squeeze this thing and it took us probably like an hour and a half to get the milk out of this thing. So anyways, the point is that what Andrew is saying is it was a really daunting task and the day that we met with this other, there's nut butter company to talk to them about their machines and other and various other things [00:09:00] to figure out how to do this. We walked out of there that day, they handed us a, a box of their, of their almond butter and I put it through the usual processing and I put it through the nut milk bag and there was nothing in there. Uh, the, the size of it was so small that it just created a perfectly emulsified milk.
Speaker 4:There was no fiber in there at all. And it changed our lives. It changed my life more dramatically, so we didn't have to do that anymore. And, and once [00:09:30] we got there is where things really started to take off for us with that. And we had actually just then with that batch, um, I mean almost literally with that batch he's talking about, we then made to, we're doing many things simultaneously while Ari was diligent in the kitchen, coming up with flavors using this, this new found paste or new found butter. Um, we were also working on, um, packaging, uh, our logo or logos and everything because [00:10:00] the idea was to come up with four flavors that we could put into a pint and sell at the supermarket. And we had, um, done some taste tests down at a local Oakland supermarket and they were very willing to give it a try and it was sort of a new thing and they liked it and the taste test went, uh, famously people really liked it.
Speaker 4:They liked the almond version. We ended up, um, bringing four skews of our almond [00:10:30] milk to market in order to try to enhance our product line. We ended up deciding to go and add in cashew as an alternative alongside of our almond four flavors and almond and four flavors in cashew. Instantly realized based on sales, that cashew was the way to go because not only were they, uh, selling better and more and tasting better during our demos and all that at the supermarket is, but the almond prices in California to be a [00:11:00] blast organic California almond just went through the roof because of the drought and everything else. And so it was obvious to us right there that we should just pull back on the almond completely and bring those flavors into the cashew line. And I think all other flavors as well came from that as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And I wanted to just piggyback on what he's saying about that as well is that as I started playing with the cashew paste or butter, um, it became obvious very quickly that it made a much smoother, creamier, better ice cream. [00:11:30] And so as Andrew said, once we went to market with it, it was pretty obvious that, that it was a better way to go. Started connecting to what he said previously. A lot of the things you mentioned in the regular ice creams, it's, I believe it's a lot of it has done also to increase the shelf life [inaudible] right. So how do you meet that challenge and at the same time managing to keep the costs? I want to actually want to comment on that. In that last night I served a [00:12:00] coffee ice cream that was in my freezer and Mr Dewey's come, Mr Mr Dewey's coffee cashew ice cream that was made.
Speaker 4:It was manufactured in uh, December of 2014. It was, as I'm telling, I'm telling you, I should've brought it to you can see it. You got it. Yeah. It was as good yesterday. Last night I made a milkshake for my son. He wanted their coffee later in life. So we're all good so far. And Greens. That's good. Also. [00:12:30] So one of the things is, this is, this is just a throw away, but when we, when we were originally um, out there with our, when we were selling our pints, cause w eventually we ended up in about 300 grocery stores throughout the western United States with our pints. Um, one of the things that we chose to do was we wrapped the lid as well in a plastic, it's a safety seal, but it also seals in the air from co seals out the air from coming in.
Speaker 4:So the seal is so tight that you have a frozen product that if it maintains it is frozen, you [00:13:00] know, a quality, it doesn't change. And so when I opened it last night, it was as good as it was at first and I'll answer a little more technically as well. The trick to getting an ice cream as fresh as you possibly can, whether it be a cashew or alternative ice cream or a traditional dairy ice cream is you have to go from the ice cream freezer. It's called, makes the ice cream from milk and into a blast freezer to a sub 20 if you can temperature as quickly as possible. [00:13:30] So you don't have crystallization happening inside. I see the more crystallized guests, the more it gets funky. Yeah. And even if some, a lot of it may not be bad for you, it just doesn't taste good.
Speaker 4:It doesn't feel it's icy on the mouth and all that stuff. Uh, that's one, two, most ice cream manufacturers make their money off of what's called yield. And the yield is what [inaudible] after you put the ice cream, the dairy ice cream in the machine, it's actually called overrun. And if you're on the ice cream industry is the yield, [00:14:00] which is at, so the overrun is, is based upon how much air you're incorporating into your, um, liquid when you're actually freezing it into an ice cream. And so the more air you have, the more pockets of air you have throughout your ice cream, which can also, crystal light can melt faster and crystallized faster if it's not sealed properly or in this case, most people will have preservatives or, or you know, other stabilizers in there. Um, we don't do that. Ours is just frozen [00:14:30] fast. It's, it holds the proteins in the cashews are so, so much that they don't really even take in much air at all. So it's just a denser, easier to preserve. So one thing I noticed when I visited the store and I had been at night is the spoons with this feed, the ice cream I made of wood, I mean 100% of
Speaker 3:the stuff at the store is compostable and you know, so tell me more about that.
Speaker 4:That was very important to us. Um, it's, we first [00:15:00] started off with a, um, a quote compostable and quote, a plastic spoon. And we learned very quickly that they really weren't,
Speaker 3:what was the city of Albany, Cambridge, you said it takes, it'll break down, but it'll take like five, five months to a year. And they [inaudible]
Speaker 4:they won't take them. So I think it was in longer than that. But anyway, the point was was we thought, no, we need to be a green company. And so we found a Birchwood spoons for eating these nice compostable [00:15:30] cups. And we also use both for purposes of reusing and also for experience for the customer. A small metal spoon for tasting every spoon is kept in our freezer so that when you actually get the experience of the taste, it's not a, it's a, it's a cold experience all the way through.
Speaker 3:Just a quick reminder, you are listening to method to the madness on your Calex. We are talking in the studio today with Ari and Andrew Cohain about Mr Dewey's cashew milk [00:16:00] ice cream. The name Mr Dewey is, how did that come to be? No. Yeah, no. Well Mr Dewey, well it's a lot of people ask. Many years ago, a good friend of mine and Andrews wrote this song called Mr Dewey. It was actually a great song, sort of an RMB upbeat song. Um, and it was, it was well done. And he decided he was gonna actually make a music video out of it. And, uh, we had been involved with them. Andrew was involved with him on a, on a music basis and he asked us if we would be involved in Andrew. Um, in a previous life [00:16:30] was also a videographer. And mind you, this was at a time in 1996
Speaker 4:when you still had MTV showing mostly videos [inaudible] and local cable stations would have a local music video station themselves or time slots for that. Yeah. And I was shooting, I think, I think I had just gone from VHS to svhs perhaps in my arsenal. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3:So they decided, he decided he wanted to take the song, which was pretty, pretty successful [00:17:00] and make a video out of it. And he said, you're going to be Mr Dewey in the video. And he chose Andrew to be the videographer and I guess editor as well. And yeah, I produced the video. Yeah. And, um, so we filmed this video, um, and it aired and actually believe it or not, people would recognize me as Mr Dewey out on the streets. And it became sort of this silly moniker because I played Mr Dewey and I played against character. So it was very, it was very funny. Um, over time the nickname just became [00:17:30] the sort of the silly thing. And when I was first during the nut milks themselves, somebody jokingly said, we should call it Mr Dewey's not milks. And all these nut jokes came out of that. And, and uh, as you can imagine, it wasn't, it wasn't pretty. But, um, anyways, it led to a point though where it sort of caught. And as we got to the point where Andrew and I were talking about what to name this, we continued on with Mr and Mr Dewey.
Speaker 4:And that video is not who Mr Dewey is for this business. But, uh, we liked the name. It's been very catchy. And so yeah, Mr Dewey is just a fictitious character in a music video that the first time I heard of the place, [00:18:00] and this was almost three years or two years ago, I just got caught by the nail. Like, okay, this is a very interesting name. It's complaints. I'm just out of curiosity, I'm just curious, what does it conjure up for you? The named Mr Dewey? I honest, think of this umbrella man, like some guy dancing on the seat. Interesting. Yeah. How can the hat on? I mean that's the picture I get [inaudible] to do it. Yeah, that's cool. I have my own image of Mr Dewey, but it's kind of, oh my image. Mr Deweese is actually a m. He's my wife's first cousin who's in his sixties [00:18:30] and he's just this wise, thoughtful, generous, loving person and who gives to other people.
Speaker 4:And to me that, that sort of what I decided Mr. Duke was it. We're a healthy option for people to have great ice cream and we're so we're giving to the community with what we're doing. So all along I thought it was just a logo [inaudible] so you pointed out earlier that you were sort of split out across western us. Yes. Right. From what I remember, you sort of cut it back [00:19:00] down now. Right's very local now. Well, you know, Andrew Hood had alluded to this earlier, that same nut butter company that made the paste. We agreed at a certain point that we would merge together and we saw, we started working with them and it was with them and through them that Andrew and I basically ran Mr Dewey's under that umbrella. Um, we got into, as we said, about 300 stores throughout sort of California, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, Washington, Oregon, [inaudible], western states.
Speaker 4:And um, eventually we were [00:19:30] actually doing pretty well. We were ascending. It's a really, really difficult game to play. You're making pints and you're putting them on trucks and you have brokers and distributors and you know, the stores actually the antithesis of what Mr do was really stood for. We didn't realize that, you know, we're not this corporate structure. We don't play well with the corporate structure. That arena doesn't make any sense. Uh, it became very painful in a way. There was no control [00:20:00] in Europe. Sort of robotic. Yeah. Your strings chunk turned out. It goes into the pines, it goes on the pallets. Palletize the giant behemoth companies come pick it up and they're giant trucks. They decide if and when they're going to pick it up. They decide how cold frigid and trust are going to be, which scared he and I because our babies are leaving there and we want someone to enjoy that at the other end, and I, we said earlier with the crystallization that things melt and then refreeze that's when you get crystallization.
Speaker 4:What kills it. It was not a good fit for us and we hung in there for [00:20:30] quite a while doing this until there were the crossroads and at those crossroads we had the option to take back the company. We ended up purchasing back and re owning our brand asset and really take a big risk because doing that we also took it off all shelves. We were not manufacturing [inaudible] and we decided we would only go and try our hat in a retail shop, which is the one on Salano avenue in Albany. And then also try and get back into our local [00:21:00] grocers, those who are sort of non-corporate who just want us to be on their shelves for their local customers and sort of in the path of, cause I do all the deliveries of where I can maintain, you know, a an easy route. Yeah.
Speaker 4:We got, we were completely disillusioned by the whole process and as Andrew said, our manufacturing facilities in San Leandro, one of our shops is an Albany, the other one is in Emeryville. Our distribution is everywhere between San Leandro and [00:21:30] Albany. So we can see it just makes a lot of sense for us to do it that way. It's the main outlet. I at it on that route for the most part. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, um, and I want to just give a shout out to farmer Joe's. Cause farmer Joe's is the store that Andrew was referring to earlier on some. Now given you an at this scale, where do you source your ingredients from? It isn't a giant company or something helping you out with that. Yeah, well actually in the separation from the larger company, what we did continue to do was purchase our cashew butter from them. I think much higher [00:22:00] rate, but yeah, but not a whole lot higher.
Speaker 4:So we still have a relationship with them. I see they do a great job of sourcing, sourcing the cashews and breaking them down into the pace that we use to make our ice cream. And what are the biggest challenges you face now? Our biggest challenge I think is not, well, so earlier on it was trying to figure out how to uh, actually sell our ice cream in a retail fashion. Lot of hiccups and lot of hurdles and you learn and you learn. We're still learning, but we kinda got it down now. I will not [00:22:30] speak for Ari. I'll just be for myself on this one, that our biggest hurdle now is how to scale up. Again. We don't want to go back to that other model. We're getting very well known slowly that sort of the circle sort of going outwards very slowly and very methodically.
Speaker 4:We were getting requests to have Mr Deweese in every city in other states and and we don't, we're not sure what to do with all that yet. At the same time, we also know that there's other companies or the people who may be [00:23:00] close behind us, so we think we were probably on the floor of the front end of this curve is trend. How do we maintain that front runner seat and not expand so fast or so far that we lose control of its quality and our face being big and fast. It's not necessarily good. And I think we learned that lesson and so as Andrew said, we're very thoughtful about how we do want to grow with this. Recognizing that it's probably a good idea for us to do it, but not at, not [00:23:30] at the risk of us. Again, feeling like we've lost control of this and so we're, we're thinking about it, we're talking about it, we're talking with, we're consulting with other people and, and moving forward with the understanding that we do want to figure out how to grow this. Interestingly enough, you know, when, when I think about
Speaker 3:what are the challenges, sort of the day to day challenges. It's funny cause there's, there's a relationship to what Andrew was saying, which is that for me personally, I source all the ingredients for our ice cream and the hot, one of the hardest parts about this is that [00:24:00] we're a very, we went from being a very large company to a very small company, but a company that we're small but we're not that small. And what I mean by that is that, so when we're sourcing sourcing stuff, sourcing ingredients, many of the companies from whom or the vendors from whom we get our, our ingredients, they don't want to deal with us. Would you? So you end up having to compromise. You have to pay a lot of money to get ingredients that you need and you can't meet their minimums. Their minimums are like 10,000 pounds [00:24:30] of, you know, of cashews or cashews isn't a good example.
Speaker 3:But like of almonds in our caramel almond crunch, as we scale up, that'll get easier and better. But for right now, I've been working with people for a long time and they keep, you know, I keep getting cut off by them. Like you're not meeting our minimums and so you can't do this. And you know, I was just saying today, uh, we're working with a company now who does huge amounts of of sales with their almonds. So we have an ice cream. Our biggest seller is caramel almond crunch and the almond crunch [00:25:00] is, is a as a dice roasted almond. And I couldn't find them. The company from whom we were getting them was, wasn't getting them anymore. And so I went looking around and anyways, not not to bore you with this, but ultimately we ended up finding this, this small farm that does organic almonds, but they export, I mean, you know, they, they sell in huge amounts and this guy just loved the concept of a organic Vegan ice cream.
Speaker 3:And he said, man, I don't care what anybody says, I'm selling [00:25:30] to you guys. And, and I say that because I talked to him today. We're just today we were talking and he said, you know, I get in a lot of trouble with my staff because they don't want to deal with you guys. And I told them, it doesn't matter. We're going to honor this because we love what they're doing. And that, that's, that's the cool side of it. The hard side is that on any given day, we're constantly negotiating to get our needs met with our ingredients. That's what any cool story from, you know, the fact that you had in Walden running and managing it. Right. Are there any, [00:26:00] you know, fun stories from you behind the counter? You know, we feel customers, well I just was going to say that there's a lot of them.
Speaker 3:I have to say. I actually, I'll tell you this and not because I'll tell you, I want to tell Andrew also is that yesterday there were two women that came in yesterday. They were eating ice cream and they said, we want to let you know that before we leave we're going to get a 10 pints because we're go, we're taking them home with us. We got to talking and they said when you guys were in Hetero Pints and whole foods, uh, we're from a town [00:26:30] in northern California, a couple of hours from here. So we used to buy your pints there and we loved, it was the only ice cream I can eat. I'm lactose intolerant and I can't do gluten either. And so we just, we now do, we have a, so that every couple of months we drive down, not for anything else. We come down here to get your ice cream. We bring it back home. She had this big container filled with ice to bring it home with. And she was just so thankful that we're at least in existence still not that your own home, but I'm just saying that there's a lot of people [00:27:00] out there who really appreciate the fact that there's an ice cream that is, there is no dairy or gluten or soy and that is Vegan and that, um, that is [inaudible].
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's actually, it's a, it's an emotional thing. We've had a whole lot endless supply of customers coming through, especially in the beginning. Uh, they still do, but who come in with tears in their eyes because then shaking, visibly shaking because they haven't had ice cream for, they can't, for whatever reason, for many, [00:27:30] many years. And here's this oasis of ice cream they can have. We also get one of my favorites, and this happens also very frequently, people will come in almost with scowls on their face because they're just so, they've been dragged in by somebody else. They're averse to the whole concept of anything besides their dairy ice cream, their whatever favorite, you know, a brand they like. They almost always go from very, very reluctant to saying our favorite line, this is better than ice cream. [00:28:00] We get, it became our slogan like Mr Dewey, like ice cream only better. It happens a lot at where people come in. Just not wanting to even try it and leaving with the pint or you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, that's amazing. I mean I should also mention it happened to me, right? I am a regular ice cream later, but I've never, I literally phased out completely eating regular ice cream. Is there some way more, if our listeners could get to know more about you guys somewhere to contact you or get in touch. Okay. Yeah. Anytime they [00:28:30] can email us for sure. Which is the, can email Andrew or Ari Info you can mail to info at Mr Dewey's dot com? Yeah. Okay. Is there any things to catch all? So anything we'll get through us. They can call the stores the Emeryville public market or the one on Solano Avenue in Albany. Um, you can go to www.mr Dewey's dot com if they want to just look at our website and get an idea of that. And do is, by the way, for your listeners, it's not spelled the way they might think it's spelled. It's spelled first of all, [00:29:00] Mr Mr. Period. Of course. But Dewey, d, e, w, e, s not the e. Why with that, people often confuse it with thanks guys. Thanks for coming today because you don't have a lot of the listeners.
Speaker 2:Thanks for joining us. Thank you.
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