Discuss Bamm.TV’s model of shooting original content from independent artists and distributing it worldwide to get the artists greater exposure and a secondary source of income
TRANSCRIPT
Speaker 1:One of our main goals of Calyx is to play music that you haven't heard before. We love doing it. We've done it for 50 years and you can help us
Speaker 2:do it for another 50 by contributing during a fundraiser that starts next week. Come on. Calyx has been doing this thing to close 50 years. The music industry around us has changed dramatically. The last decade has brought turmoil with the industry revenues shifting from the offline world to the online and artists trying to find where they stand in this new economy. It ended of use with Fam TV, [00:00:30] the San Francisco startup to proposes to use technology to get art as a bigger share of profits. Stay with us.
Speaker 1:My name is Chris Hansen and I am the cofounder and CEO of Bam TV. Okay. And um, so give me your problem statement. We always start with this is kind of you see from a market perspective [00:01:00] what's going on. Where did you see the opportunity? If you look at where the music industry is right now, uh, approximately 96% of recorded music sales come from 20% of musicians. And that is an extreme inequality that is a product of, uh, you know, this, this system that we've inherited, the system that was based on physical products and not on services [00:01:30] or access. And so, you know, in the process over the last decade, um, emerging artists have been left in the dust and there really is no means for them to first of all get exposure. But secondly, to monetize their content, it's, it's almost impossible. So we addressed this problem as musicians.
Speaker 1:Um, two of the other early hires and I were in a band together. So [00:02:00] we, we know some of the trials and tribulations of being an unknown artist and, uh, that's really where, where the idea was born out of. Okay. And tell me a little bit about your background. You're a musician and what other kinds of experiences do you have? So I mean, to go way back, uh, the idea really germinated, uh, in Atlanta, um, where I ran a gallery in a multimedia performance space. And, [00:02:30] uh, you know, we did a, in the summer of 2000, we did an eight week series of live video streaming programs. So it was called the blue milk show. And uh, you know, we learned a lot, but we also, one of the things we learned was that the, uh, the Internet and the general public was not ready for live video streaming in 2000.
Speaker 1:Um, nobody could watch it. So then, um, you know, at the time I had launched with, with some artists, friends and in [00:03:00] Atlanta and also with my brother. And during the years, my brother and I is kind of bounced the idea back and forth. I came out to San Francisco to get my MBA. And, uh, the capstone of my entrepreneurship emphasis emphasis was, uh, this idea of bricks and mortar media. And the idea at that point was to create a venue that would be open to the public, that would live stream and record performances from, uh, independent and emerging bands [00:03:30] and serve as a content creation factory basically for this next generation of video content. And, uh, we pitched the idea and investors said, well, you know, it's interesting, but, uh, first go prove that you can get traction and that you can find, uh, you know, the talent.
Speaker 1:And that you can find an audience. And so that's what we did. My brother and I have bootstrapped it to this point [00:04:00] and we've recorded over a hundred bands. Um, and we've got distribution agreements in place in a 150 countries that isn't there a venue called brick and mortar in Sydney? Is that, is that just by coincidence? It is by that is by coincidence that, that you're referring to? Uh, yeah, it's a, it's a little jazz club. I think it's owned by, uh, the same person that owns the new parish. Uh, used to be Coda. Um, but there is no, uh, [00:04:30] there is no relation. Okay. And um, so you went on the fundraising trail of these investors is do you to go to like a y Combinator or those types of organizations that all this tech startups go to or where, where are you trying to find audiences?
Speaker 1:I think there's, there is a place for incubators for a lot of, a lot of, uh, startup ideas. We maybe did things the hard way, but maybe in other ways we were our [00:05:00] own incubator. Um, the idea of recording live performances began in our garage that we had rehearsed in as a band. Um, so from a garage in the inner Richmond, uh, we bands actually came in and recorded a full set and you know, we kind of, we kind of winged it and uh, you know, I was operating pro tools at the time and the other directors were operating cameras. Um, then we moved into a studio in Soma and best thing we ever did for the business was [00:05:30] stop recording on protools and hand the cameras to the film school graduates who actually knew what they were doing. And that's when, um, the content really started to take off. And so about, uh, sort of incubators and an early stage investors, um, you know, I'm not sure that we would've had a lot of believers early on until we just went out and did it. You can't, you can't say, oh, we're going to make content and it's going to be great. You're going [00:06:00] to love it. Um, cause until they actually see it,
Speaker 2:ah, that's all extract. You're listening to KALX Berkeley 90.7 FM. This is method to the Nadis 30 minutes show about the innovative spirit of the bay area. I'm your host Ali desire. And today we are interviewing Chris Hanson, CEO of Pan TV.
Speaker 1:A lot of companies talk about content or distribution and it's very difficult to do both. Um, [00:06:30] so how did you guys come? It sounds like you guys do both. You generate the content, but you're also building the networks that's your come to that, um, business model. So yeah. Um, I mean just the, the, the nature of the agreement that we have with the artist, uh, we don't charge them anything to record and we split net profits 50, 50. And because of that, they, you know, are more than happy to give us a global distribution license [00:07:00] to the content. And it turns out that, uh, this idea of a global, you know, frictionless distribution arrangement is extremely rare in the music industry. So in this sort of proof of concept phase, we realized a, with an all digital workflow, we could produce HD music video content at a fraction of the cost that it would have, you know, run up.
Speaker 1:Even a couple of years ago, I, and B, there was an unmet demand for [00:07:30] content internationally. And it was actually about a year ago, we were at a trade show and a, a content provider from Taiwan, um, said, you know, I'm trying to get music content on onto this cable network, but you know, nobody will give me their content and I've got, I've got a shelf space for it, but nobody will give it to me. So we realized that was a, an entry point. And so a cable operator in Taiwan was actually our first client, [00:08:00] um, that served as, um, you know, a proof of concept for us to initiate a relationship with Samsung. And, uh, and so what we have done as part of our launch is, you know, we've created a unique content offering by way of an app for Samsung smartphones and tablet devices. Seems to be the Internet has enabled global distribution where you don't have to go and negotiate with all these different, [00:08:30] um, countries.
Speaker 1:But why, what value add are you guys providing as opposed to them just posting on Youtube besides the production value? It seems like you guys bring, well, it starts with curation. Um, and there we've lowered the cost of production, but there still is a cost and you can only record so many bands. So really that's, you know, the used to be extremely good at this, um, back in the day and they'd go into [00:09:00] the clubs and see the opening band as well as the headliner. And you know, the equivalent of that today is going on my space, going on Facebook. Also go into it to real world clubs and just getting to know the band, seeing what other music blogs are writing about and what festivals are people getting into. And you start to see patterns, um, for bands that are just about to break through.
Speaker 1:And I won't necessarily take credit for, you know, them breaking through [00:09:30] if they hit to the extent that they have, you know, some have gone on to Conan and Letterman and Bonnaroo and you know, festivals and that sort of thing. But, uh, I will say that our music director, Phil Bang is, uh, if he could pick stocks as well as he can pick bands, we wouldn't need this round of funding. I don't think. So. You mentioned the patterns. Can you give us an example of a pattern? Sure. I mean, uh, you can do anything in the studio. Uh, you can [00:10:00] add vocal filters. You can do auto tune would it doesn't matter. So one pattern obviously is how is the band well-rehearsed, you know, can the lead singer hit the notes? Uh, because if they can't, in our case, we're just getting a license to a live performance.
Speaker 1:So if they can't perform live, it's a nonstarter. Um, but also, you know, how big is the crowd? How many followers do they have? Do you see them doing Kickstarter campaigns? Are they, do they have management? Are they with an Indie label? All of these things [00:10:30] kind of create a picture of the band and uh, yeah. Th then it's just about timing. Are they on a west coast tour? Are they local? You know, are they at a festival that we can go record? Yeah. So let's talk about the content cause we, we've mentioned the content quite a bit, but it's video contents, not the audio. The ban has a deal for the audio with the label, most likely. Well No. So it is the audio. Um, I mean, so I should explain. They can have whatever relationship with a label, indie [00:11:00] or major, uh, that they want with us.
Speaker 1:They come in, they record the songs usually a couple of times just so we're sure we get a good take and then we get a license to distribute that, the audio, the video, and we can remix, sample, make derivative works and sub-license the live performance, the live performance. Um, and then let's say, let's say that an independent band comes in, they record, we distribute, everybody's happy, but they get signed [00:11:30] to a label and the label wants to buy back all of their previous recordings. That's fine. We agree to a, a third party appraisal of the content and that becomes the basis for, uh, the exit from, from the deal. So we're not trying to lock anybody into, you know, a lifelong commitment to Bam TV. Uh, we're just trying to know, have a deal that makes sense for, for us, for the artist and for our distribution partners and hopefully [00:12:00] for the labels as well.
Speaker 1:But it, is it a, is it a potential that you guys would have your own label too and just do that work? Yeah, I mean, people ask us a lot if, if we're a digital label or, you know, label 2.0 or whatever. Um, and I, I can definitely see that comparison. Uh, there is a little bit of baggage admittedly to calling yourself a label. So, uh, I try to save that comparison for the [00:12:30] end of the pitch instead of the beginning of the pitch. But, uh, but yeah, there are definitely comparisons, but I don't, I think the nature of a label is going to have to fundamentally change in order to survive. And so the big difference from the major labels, the 50% of revenues are still from physical sales. So, you know, they're testing the waters on streaming and digital, but they can't cannibalize entirely the physical side, so they're not able to move as quickly.
Speaker 1:[00:13:00] We have no physical revenues. Um, you know, the content is created, edited and distributed entirely in the digital realm. So we can just explore that territory and just find agreements that, that work for everybody. So you said that this business couldn't have, couldn't have existed five years ago because of the, the digital editing technology, wasn't there the end to end process? Can you take us through that process a little bit? Yeah. And what, I mean, it certainly would have been possible, but it would've [00:13:30] been cost prohibitive of just a few years ago. Um, so yeah, I mean, we, we, we have a soundstage, uh, in our San Francisco studio. Um, we, we shoot with anywhere from four to six cameras depending. Um, and then, and so we do a variety of things. We'll do a live switch of, um, the event. So it's available for live streaming, but we really spend a lot of time on post-production.
Speaker 1:Uh, we run on final cut and we'll do, you [00:14:00] know, multi-camera editing. Um, and so that 20% of the content that we create, uh, we give away free and clear to the musician. So that's usually the single, and we really try to get creative with that and just make it sort of a spectacular, um, asset for the band to EPK or for, you know, promotional purposes to get subscribers. And then, um, you know, gradually we'll edit if it's five songs, 10 songs, whatever. [00:14:30] Um, it's, so there's any number of ways that we can distribute the final product, uh, anywhere from 60 minute episodes for our cable partner in Taiwan to a curated play mixes, which is how we present the content on Android, uh, with our Samsung partnership. The play mix is basically 10 to 12 songs is Kinda like a mixed tape for the digital age. We encourage our users to, uh, to make [00:15:00] their own play mixes and share them with their friends. So, um, you know, file sharing does not have to be illegal or immoral or give you a guilty conscience because when you get a streaming model, um, you know, we can encourage, uh, the more the merrier as far as
Speaker 2:hey distribution, you are listening to k a l x Berkeley 90.7 family streaming on the worldwide web@klxscuffberkeley.edu. [00:15:30] This is method to the madness of 30 minutes share to accelerate the innovative spirit of the bay area. I'm your host, Toby bizarre. And today we're speaking with Chris Hanson, the CEO of Bam TV.
Speaker 3:So one thing I wanted to ask you about was, I was looking at your website and there's language about this was created for musicians by musicians and it's very pro musician, um, [00:16:00] business you're creating. And I guess I was gonna say pro musician software, but it's much more than you've got the production, you've got the distribution, you got the software apps, you guys are doing a lot of different things. Um, but the kind of the, the reason behind it all is to help the musician. It seems like from a monetary perspective to cut them into the deal. Can you tell us a little bit about the business of music right now and, and kind of where does the money go right now and how are you going to change that equation?
Speaker 1:Sure. Um, [00:16:30] since since Spotify arrived in the u s and especially since the Facebook partnerships with music streaming services has come up, um, a lot of attention is being paid to how music streaming services pay artists, first of all, how much, and secondly, do they keep the same relationship with the labels as they do with independent artists? And [00:17:00] I have sympathy for the streaming services because 50 to 70% of their revenues go to the labels regardless of what they tell you or will disclose publicly. Um, you know, if you look at Pandora's as one as they filed for their IPO, it depends year to year, but it's 50 to 70%. And you know, Spotify is facing essentially the same thing as, as rhapsody as is RDO as is pretty much everybody. So they pay more [00:17:30] to major label artists than they pay to indie artists.
Speaker 1:Um, and again, these were the negotiated terms. It was you played this way or you don't make it, you know, into this market. So if you look for independent artists, there's just, there's just no chance that going to make money through digital streaming services as they are today. So that's, that's sort of our sweet spot is addressing that audience and we feel, yes, it's nice to the artist [00:18:00] to be, to do this 50 50 profit share. But frankly, I think it's much better to, uh, to share profits 50 50 rather than to pay revenues 50 to 70%. So it just makes, from our perspective, and maybe we're more of a boutique play in this regard, but, uh, it makes a lot more business sense for us.
Speaker 3:And the revenue. Is it purchases made off of the content online or is there advertising revenue as well, like Google's [00:18:30] adsense, that type of thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's divided into, uh, direct licensing advertising and premium subscriptions or premium services and a weed. So there are a lot of direct licensing deals where it's free to the end user in whatever market, but they're paying us directly per subscriber. Um, a good portion of the android and Ios, uh, revenues will come from advertising. Um, we have a couple of different advertising partners to help us reach [00:19:00] those international markets. Um, and then it seems to be that anywhere from you can expect anywhere from five to 10% of your, uh, your die hard fans to get some kind of a premium engagement. We also allow for downloads. Um, but you know, it just varies from market to market. Um, what makes sense. For instance, it's, it makes sense to have, it makes sense to have streaming only access in the u [00:19:30] s but if you're in a remote, you know, uh, part of India, perhaps, maybe you would rather have them downloaded to your device.
Speaker 3:Okay. And speaking of India, it sounds like you have a global reach. Um, you guys are right now, but, um, you have to curate the talent, right? So that you can't have people everywhere, although you have distribution everywhere. So, um, right now it's mostly bay area based bands that you're signing or how's that working right now?
Speaker 1:No, I mean I would for [00:20:00] sure there are a good number of bay area bands, um, just for convenience and there's a lot of great talent here. But, um, you know, most bands, if they're doing a west coast tour, they're going to stop in San Francisco. So we do catch a lot of touring bands that way. And then when we go to festivals like south by southwest or the photosynthesis festival or, you know, different genres, we're able to diversify, uh, quite a bit. In January, we'll be, uh, at does met in [00:20:30] the Netherlands. Um, and so that will be our first sort of European, um, content creation. [inaudible] and even, um, even in Taiwan, uh, we've tried to make the content more approachable to a Taiwanese audience. So we've hired an OnAir VJ who speaks mandarin and, uh, kind of introduces American rock or American electronic music to a, to a Taiwanese audience.
Speaker 1:So we're [00:21:00] trying to, even if we don't produce content in a native country, uh, we're trying to address that market if there's interest. Um, I guess one thing I would add too is we have about a third of our content under the umbrella of Bam Latino. And so it's, you know, perfectly addressable for all audiences, but it really targets urban subcultures because it's all Spanish language or, or Portuguese language. Um, and then broader [00:21:30] markets in Latin America. So we're able to get a lot of artists who are filling stadiums in Latin America, but they're playing jazz clubs when they come to San Francisco. And so, um, you know, it increases our reach more than we could.
Speaker 3:Okay. I mean, you guys are in some ways, you're, uh, your taste makers, like you are curating the talent. Um, and that's, that's, oh, there's a long tradition of that and the music business. Um, so how do you feel like you can [00:22:00] scale that kind of, you know, tastemaking or finding the people that other people aren't finding do it?
Speaker 1:The great thing about scalability and being global is every new international market you, you open up to, uh, you've, you've got a new way to monetize a piece of content. [inaudible] but in terms of scaling the curation process, we actually, I mean, that's, that's one of the reasons why we are, uh, seeking a series [00:22:30] a right now. Um, and there's, in order to, instead of, you know, we do two to three bands a week, and in order to make that eight or 10, we need to have a larger studio so that we can set up multiple sound stages at a time and increase the efficiency that way. We also have plans to open up to third party licensing. There's a lot of great content that's already out there, but there's just no, there's no market for it because it's getting lost on youtube or you [00:23:00] know, nothing wrong with youtube, but it's not great for discovery. Really. Um, so once we, you know, now that we have a foothold in our own created content, um, we're opening up to third party licensing as well.
Speaker 3:So, and I would assume that you guys, the content you curate will be, you'll be moving and where that people want it to go as opposed to you guys trying to push new sounds or you're looking for audiences that are looking for that stuff already, right?
Speaker 1:[00:23:30] Yeah, I mean, again, it is this idea of looking for patterns, looking for bands that, that, um, are about to break through. And so there is some kind of, I mean there is a consensus with other tastemakers out there to a certain extent. You start to see familiar names. Uh, you know, as you dive in and band names is, you know, are very colorful. So, uh, you either know it or you don't. And, you know, um, so you do start, I mean, I, there, there are bands that deserve [00:24:00] to break through and the best situation for us is to be there when they're, when they're primed for that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Okay. Um, so you wanna give us a couple of examples of some bands that have come through the Bam TV network and it's made an impact on their careers.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Uh, I'll, I'll start with, you know, one of the first bands that we recorded in our, in our San Francisco studio is, ha ha, Tonka. And these guys work really, really hard. They're on [00:24:30] tour all the time. And uh, so the first real compliment that, uh, that we got as a, as a company was when they, they told their fans, hey, we didn't have a tie, a chance to, uh, to make a music video for this song song as close every valve of your bleeding heart. And it's wonderful, by the way. And our live performance video stood in for as a substitute for them going to make their own music video. And that I thought was really cool.
Speaker 3:[00:25:00] I love to talk to entrepreneurs about their vision. You know, you start something now and you're, you kind of scrap right now in the middle of it. But five years from now, let's say this thing takes off, what kind of impact or disruption will Bam TV have on the music business?
Speaker 1:Well, I, I think the best, uh, innovations come from problems that the entrepreneur feels. I mean, you maybe not always, but I think once [00:25:30] you really empathize with the problem, you get a feel for it in a way that, that you can't just intellectually understand. And so I see where the, I see the trajectory we're on as being one element of that. Um, but we also have plans for, you know, ways for artists that are on the road to, um, to earn money directly from Bam t v so now, not just the profit share, but if they get customers [00:26:00] or if they get users to come online and download our app, we'll just pay them, you know, maybe it pays for gas money. Maybe it causes more bands to go on tour and take the leap. Maybe having a, an EPK that's a little bit more polished helps, you know, early stage bands get a better gig.
Speaker 1:Um, I, I don't know if the, the music industry is ever going to be as big as it was, uh, you know, in [00:26:30] 99 or 2000 or whenever it peaked and maybe a smaller music industry is okay. Um, and maybe, you know, the only way for it, for a profit share to work is if we're transparent about how much we spend as a business and where our Costco and what we count as a cost. And maybe transparency is what the music industry really needs. Um, maybe it's okay to just shed the, the structures and the vestiges of, of what we had [00:27:00] and just start making it up as we go. And I think once we put artists sort of at the forefront and create a clear path for monetization for them, um, you know, the sky's the limit there.
Speaker 3:That was Chris Hanson, CEO of Bam TV, a startup that is disrupting the music industry. We'd like to think of for being on the show today, and you can learn more about Pam tp by going to www dot [inaudible]
Speaker 2:damn, that's p a m m. Dot. TV. This is a method to the madness [00:27:30] or websites method to the madness.org have a great Friday. Everybody.
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