Ali Nazar interviews PhD Christine Boyle, Founder and CEO of Valor Water, a startup that provides monitoring infrastructure to help water utilities better manage supply
TRANSCRIPT
Speaker 1:You're listening toK , a l x Berkeley 90.7 FM, university of California and listener supported radio. And this is method to the madness of public affairs program coming at you from the basement of arrows hall talking to innovators all across the bay area. I'm your host Deleon Huizar and today we're fortunate enough to have Christine Boyle with us from valor water analytics. Hi Christine.
Speaker 2:Hi Ali. Nice to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for coming in. And um, we're excited to have you here and uh, you're [00:00:30] coming to us to talk about water. [inaudible]
Speaker 2:I am, it's a, it's a hot topic here in the bay area in California this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Your timing is good. So, um, and you're coming out, I think from a little bit of a different angle, you're talking a little bit less about from the kind of consumer side and more from the municipality side. Is that right?
Speaker 2:That's right. Um,
Speaker 1:so before we get into, I want to, I'll ask you just kind of on a high level, what's the problem statement? You're creating an organization to solve this problem. What is the problem [00:01:00] as you see it?
Speaker 2:So, um, in a nutshell, um, essentially the u s water municipalities and utilities have been providing great water, clean, affordable water across the United States for a long time and they're very good at it. But things are changing. Climate is changing. Um, plumbing is changing, populations are changing. And, and along with that that utilities are kind of needing to change their game [00:01:30] a little bit too in order to respond to these changes. One thing we look at a lot is called we call the conservation conundrum. That is with people using less water, what's going to happen to kind of the revenue side of, of, of uh, utilities and keeping water affordable for everyone while people are using less water and that's actually affecting utilities bottom line. So, um, that, you know, that idea of conservation we know is a good, but it's a little tricky when you're in the business of [00:02:00] selling water and trying to keep it
Speaker 1:affordable for people. That's really interesting. So is it, if from a statistical perspective, is it pretty clear that the water usage is, is shrinking?
Speaker 2:It is across the country, um, water or you call, you know, from an economic perspective, you call it water demand, water demand, uh, is declining even as populations grow. We've seen it in places as far as from Seattle to Atlanta to New York, North Carolina, California, [00:02:30] uh, the average water use per household is going down, which is good.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's what we want. Yeah. So you're, you're kind of thinking past that in saying, okay, that's going to happen. That's right. And how do we make sure that water is still easily accessible and affordable to everybody?
Speaker 2:That's right. Um, and so we provide solutions to water utilities in a number of ways to help them, um, find out who's saving water, who isn't, who might need some assistance in terms [00:03:00] of keeping water affordable, um, and how to sort of target things. And I know Obama used to say, let's do it with a, with a scalpel instead of a machete, kind of to make things a little bit more targeted to specific groups so we can help keep delivering that clean, fresh, nice water that everyone wants to come out of their tap when they turn that tap on.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And it's amazing if you've ever traveled internationally, you really realize how much for granted we take having clean water come out of our taps [00:03:30] whenever we want it.
Speaker 2:I know it's, it's really, I mean, when you think of American water utilities and the fact that you can turn that tap on without a second thought and know, you know, almost to a 100% level that that water's going to be clean and, um, that you can drink it, you can bathe in it. Um, strangely you use that same water to, you know, water your grass, which is a little odd. Um, but it's, I mean, American water utilities are just some of the best in [00:04:00] the world. And so the idea is to keep them strong even as things are, things are shifting.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Interesting. Okay. So, um, that's the problem statements. [inaudible] statements, keep them strong. Yeah. Keep the infrastructure strong. So I think with that background, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you kind of came to this problem.
Speaker 2:Um, that is a good question. Well, I studied water. That's how I started. Um, I was, you know, as a kind of more of a younger person. I traveled [00:04:30] the world and like you said, I traveled internationally and I saw um, places where water was really scarce and water was dirty and um, people weren't able to turn on their tap and get water. In fact, that would probably be what was making them sick a lot of the time. Um, so after some, some travels, especially a lot, I spent a lot of time in China, um, since some time in, in South Asia. Uh, came back to graduate school and stayed to study water. Um, [00:05:00] and um, I studied at University of North Carolina. I got a doctorate there and um, worked with many water utilities and was, you know, first of all just really impressed with, with what water utilities were doing.
Speaker 2:But I also saw that there were a lot of things that utilities didn't know. And a lot of this was around, um, having a closer look at what, what their customers were doing. And I knew that because I, you know, I also am from Seattle and I knew amazon.com for example, knows exactly what [00:05:30] their customers do. They know, they can know, for example, after you click around on the website, if you're, if you want your Diana Ross CD or you want a power saw, like they're able to tell you what kind of customer you are and to target different types of things to you. And I thought, wouldn't it be interesting if we could kind of build a set of tools so that what our utilities would know, are you an irrigater? Are you a large family? Are you a renter? Um, and be able to kind of pinpoint, um, programs and different types of, uh, messaging [00:06:00] and in a similar way. Um, so I studied that for a long time. North Carolina really enjoyed my time there and then eventually got the call to, uh, come west and came back this way.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, um, that something that you just said to too makes me wonder, and we're listening to Christine Boyle, who's the founder and president of valor water analytics, a, um, a, a startup out of San Francisco, right. Based in San Francisco. That's correct. [00:06:30] Um, and so one of the things you just said, and this is method to the madness by the way, on KALX Berkeley. I'm Eileen Huizar and, and I want to talk about, you said inefficiency or you, you inferred that if the, if the utilities want, they're trying to understand more about the their user. That's right. Cause they're, cause they're using water incorrectly. They need to educate them. Is that, is that the problem that you're trying to get at?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Um, I mean it depends what the utilities goals are. Every utility is different. And, you know, there's so much [00:07:00] talk right now, the big, you know, Governor Brown came out on Tuesday with his announcements about the drought and there's been a lot of, um, people kind of pointing fingers around the state and saying, you know, hey, look at the coastal regions. They're not decreasing their water use. Um, look at this region. They're not decreasing their water use. And when it, when it comes down to is if you have a great supply, you can use all that water you want. So, um, utilities are only constrained by their supply. So you [00:07:30] can't, there's no kind of like one size fits all rule. Um, we do see that with populations growing and especially in places here like here in California, that efficiency overall is a good thing. And even if you have supply today, you don't always know that what your supply is going to be like tomorrow. So con conservation and efficiency in that way are kind of, um, securing, uh, future. Um, but that being said, I mean, people love their gardens. People love watering their lawns [00:08:00] and if you have supply and if you're willing to pay for that, there can be an efficient use there. But Hey, you gotta pay.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well I guess what I'm asking is, um, the, uh, the Amazon's use case for the analytics is very clear cause they want to sell me more stuff. Yeah. What is the utilities use case for the analytics? Like how, like, like besides just knowing how much water I spend, why would they care whether I'm a family or an irrigator or whatever.
Speaker 2:Often it's, it's often, [00:08:30] you know, it can be for different reasons. One is they might, you might be a group that they're trying to protect. Um, like for example, when a utility raises its rates, um, and, and is trying to kind of drive efficiency through its rates, they might end up hurting large families. And that's typically in a pretty vocal voice, um, amongst kind of customer groups. Uh, because those large families, you know, they're doing the and taken five showers a day and such. So they're not necessarily inefficient [00:09:00] users, but they're getting hit with the rate that is meant to target inefficient user. So it's, it's the idea is to kind of, um, the idea behind the analytics and what we call kind of this like business intelligence is to, um, be able to target programming and pricing. And for renters, for example, we're in Berkeley and I lived in a college town for a long time too. Renters often are beholden to the plumbing and leakiness of whatever their landlords do. [00:09:30] Um, so if you know where the renders are, you might be able to, you know, kind of give those landlords low flow toilet rebates and things like that so that the renter, the landlord is gonna help, um, kind of, or the utility in the landlord ultimately will help that, that student, that Grad student, um, behave more efficiency efficiently and have a lower bill.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. So it's kind of the, the thought of the knowledge with the knowledge comes the power. They can innovate and they can figure out different angles [00:10:00] to optimize the infrastructure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. And it's so it's not, you know, it's not to sell more water for sure, but it's to, um, you know, kind of approach things in a more, every group is different. Let's, let's all kind of have a, a case that works for us in terms of how we use water
Speaker 1:now. Um, was there, uh, was there some incident with water on your trip that made you, did you get sick from water or something and what turned on the water love?
Speaker 2:Wow. I have gotten sick from it. [00:10:30] Um, let's see. Well, you know, I think that water's really interesting. I mean, there's so many different aspects of it. You see it, the artists love to draw water. Uh, you know, there's sort of the religious and spiritual aspects of water. Um, there's the environmental aspect of water. But what really drew me into the water was water as kind of a human right and something that I thought like, all people should have access to clean and affordable water and, and, you know, have crossed [00:11:00] this world. They, they just don't. And that a way to kind of empower people to, you know, like take care of their families and have jobs and do good in the world is making sure that they don't get sick. And, and I did get sick from water. I mean, I didn't, I haven't had, um, like typhoid or cholera, knock on wood, but I certainly have lots of friends that have and know lots of people that have, and I've seen that it's just sort of a needless, um, impediment for people to, to live their lives. [00:11:30] Um, and so it, it inspired me, this sort of this, this human right to water in a human right to clean water. Um, that's kind of led me on this long journey and it's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you, you, um, the journey kind of began with the phd, it sounds like, so you're now you're Dr. Christine Boyle and that's, that sounds really cool. And you decided to start a company. Yeah. So how did, how did you get to that point of if of attacking water from [00:12:00] this perspective of, of starting a company to all of it?
Speaker 2:Um, you know, I, I love being a graduate student and I, and I enjoy kind of the scholarly contributions. Um, so a couple of things happen. One is that, you know, I, I kind of have a bit of impatience about myself that I kind of, I really liked kind of the action and putting, implementing ideas and seeing things. Um, kind of on the ground, bring around the good that I, [00:12:30] that I was kind of seeking in the, to, you know, for my career. Um, academia does that in a, in a more slow paced way. Um, but I can say this to all the students that might be listening to is that I was lucky as a student to, uh, work on a really cool research project. Um, and that research project was this, you know, customer sales analysis that I did at University of North Carolina and with a great team there, environmental finance center. And when I saw that we had created something that we could [00:13:00] kind of scale and bring to, um, to the world, to the market, that was kind of too exciting for me, um, to turn, to turn back from. So I just, you know, I was like, you know, to take a your homework project, your, your Grad school project and then like turn it into bring it to market was just an opportunity that I just saw was like ripe at that moment.
Speaker 1:Okay. So the, the genesis of valor water analytics was your research project or your, your graduate project?
Speaker 2:It was a graduate project. Yeah, absolutely. And I, so I have a licensing [00:13:30] agreement with the University of North Carolina.
Speaker 1:Okay, great. Uh Huh. To do this, to continue to do this work. Okay. So you came out as this um, doctoral student with this really great idea and then how did you go from there? I'm sure there's some graduate students of the year is just like, wow, she started a business. How do you go from there to moving across the country and actually starting a business and tell us a little bit about what is, what is the business, what does it do? So the business, yes.
Speaker 2:Um, so we take a water utility customer [00:14:00] data, like, like billing data, de-identified. So everyone's protected. We don't, no one's looking at account numbers or anything, but we clean it and then we present it to utilities as you know, kind of a dashboard of sorts. Um, so they can look in at things like their revenue profile and what their different kinds of customer segmentation profiles look like. And um, even as much as like what, what is our, the financial impacts of drought, um, what are the financial impacts of conservation and how, how does that affect your future [00:14:30] planning? So it's served up as a, um, as a dashboard that they can click on and, um, is updated. And on the back end is the technology part, which is a lot of, you know, the database management and data cleaning and the analytics that we write. You know, for everyone who's in a social sciences or natural sciences, we r which is a great programming language. Um, so that was the part that as a company we, you know, we needed to get some investors, [00:15:00] we needed to test the market a little bit and see if there was gonna be an appetite for this product and, uh, kind of take it from a research project into something that was a little more, um, salient and kind of ready for the market to kind of, you know, put some more pizazz to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, and we're, we're speaking with Christine Boyle, the founder and CEO of valor water analytics, which is a water startup in the San Francisco, [00:15:30] in the, in the city of San Francisco. Uh, here on method to the madness on KALX Berkeley 90.7 FM. I'm your host. Tellin is r and d. Tell us a little bit about your investors and how you raise money. It's, um, yeah, it's a hard thing to do, especially for someone who's an academic, it's know something that you probably hadn't done before. How did that, how did that go down?
Speaker 2:So, um, you know, I started how a lot of people start is kind of went to friends and family and I had a little, uh, we call like bootstrapping [00:16:00] in the lingo. Um, so started with a little pocket of money and got a demo ready that enough. You know, it's kind of like you need money to build your thing, but you can't build your thing until you have money. It's uh, it's, it's tough, especially when you're kind of new, you know, new to it all. You're not a kind of a seasoned veteran. Um, so I got a little money to build the demo and did that and we have, we have several contracts in the, in the [00:16:30] um, state of North Carolina that, you know, continued to feed some revenue and then built the demo and just kind of went around and started talking to investors and getting people excited. Um, and
Speaker 1:is there a like a, a set of water investors like people very interest.
Speaker 2:There's some really neat stuff going on in San Francisco. Let me name two that are really, really neat. First is Tamale, which is the accelerator that valor water analytics is in. There's 2014 summer cohort there at urban ventures [00:17:00] accelerator. And we are part of that group now. They've been incredibly helpful to us. Um, and that's solving urban problems is their, their niche and it's, they're terrific. There's another accelerator that we're affiliated with called imagination two o again, like an accelerator for solving water problems. So they also help connect us to, to investors and investment groups. Um, I got and you know, just to sort of like different things to do to Kinda dive into the deep [00:17:30] end of the pool. I joined the Industry Association and was elected chair of the American Water Works Association, um, financial management committee. So I, you know, really got to have my feet on the ground and um, be able to attend all the conferences and, and you know, like just go for it and kind of transition from being a scholar to more of a entrepreneurial side. Um, so I've been busy
Speaker 1:and, uh, so you just jumped in and sounds like is the common, [00:18:00] we have a lot of entrepreneurs on this show, almost all entrepreneurs, and that's the common theme. It's just, it's the passion really for the problem that you're trying to solve. And that's what drives everything else. And, and yeah, you can kind of solve any problem as long as you've got that passion.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, and you kind of believe in your solution. And, and I really, I mean from the, we've worked with 12 utilities across the country now. We've just recently signed our, uh, first contract for northern California, which we're excited about. And like, we've seen the results. [00:18:30] And so that part, you know, keeps you going too. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, um, so you went out, you started knocking on investor doors, making presentations, um, and then you've, now it's, and when did you start valor water analytics?
Speaker 2:Oh, we incorporated in November, 2013.
Speaker 1:Okay. So it's been about eight, nine months. I'm like that eight diamond or a baby. Yeah. And, um, and you said you have 14,
Speaker 2:we have 14. Several of them were from working at the university. So [00:19:00] they are kind of like a legacy, a legacy contracts, I would call them. Um, so they, we've used, you know, we've done these analytics with them, but they're, you know, they're, they're kind of legacy contracts as opposed to, you know, kind of moving forward. Uh, and, and the California market. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Speaker 1:You made references some success that you've seen. Is that success in terms of getting new contracts or success in the usage of the product by the utilities?
Speaker 2:Um, well [00:19:30] both. I mean, we're excited to kind of have points on the board with the contract, but mostly in the results. I mean, just to chat with the, you know, the CFOs and general managers in like, for example, we, we worked with a, uh, a utility that we're able to show them how much use their water use has changed and how much that, that's, um, kind of impacted their bottom line. And they, there was a drought in, uh, 2007, 2008 in North Carolina and we [00:20:00] saw that in fact a lot of their customers, they had aim for a 20% reduction, but 18% of their customers had reduced by 50%. That's, I mean, that's a lot. That's a big reduction. And although that's good, it also meant that they lost one point $2 million in revenue that year and they were kind of scratching their heads about, okay, how does that impact us moving forward? What do we do with that? Is that kind of a permanent shift downward? And we were able to help them, um, kind of strategize [00:20:30] around setting their conservation marks well re remaining, um, fiscally healthy. Um, so
Speaker 1:interesting. Yeah, that's great. So it's really exciting nine months in and you're already got customers and getting feedback and this is a very, such a meaningful thing you're doing. So that's very exciting. It's been fun. Yeah. So again, we're talking to Christine Boyle, the founder and CEO of valor water analytics. And so I want to kind of pivot a little bit. We've been talking about your solution and it's really exciting what's going on with you. [00:21:00] Um, but now as someone who is studied water and has, um, an analytics company about water, so you know, a lot, so I wanna I want to ask about when everybody seems to be concerned about as a supply side of it, you're talking about the demand side, which we can control somewhat, but we can't control the supply side unless we start doing crazy desalination things or whatever. So what's your, as someone who sits in a, in this industry and has a lot of experience and knowledge, um, tell us a little bit about what you see on [00:21:30] the supply side.
Speaker 2:So supply, I mean in, I think, you know, we can just kind of talk about an arid climate, a place where supply is constrained like California. Um, there are major huge investments going into securing supply and you know, like kind of like I said at the beginning of my e u you can secure more supply, you can disseminate, but it's very expensive. So I think that the, [00:22:00] the balance that communities need to, to, to come to is, okay, you can, there are supply options, but how do you, how do you do that in a way that's keeps water affordable for your community, um, and doesn't completely mortgage, you know, many generations to come in terms of paying for it. I mean, I was just down in San Diego and they, that is a very impressive water agency, but they've invested, um, over $1 billion in their diesel projects and you know, multiple reservoirs and that, [00:22:30] that works for that community and that's okay.
Speaker 2:Um, but it's very expensive and not all in you. You have to kind of assume that there's going to be economic growth and such to pay for that and that's not going to be right for every community. Um, so I think it's, I think it's a tough balance, but I am a huge fan of investments in reclaim recycling. Um, I've been to the Orange County reclaimed facility. I think that is a really great way to move forward. I mean water is a renewable resource [00:23:00] and the more you can leverage it as that, the better. Um, but it's expensive.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And it's interesting when I hear you talk about it, it sounds like it's so much dependent upon the local municipalities. Like we have East Bay mud here, right. And they have to do a lot of innovation it sounds like because there's a, a, a solution that's going to be just particular for that particular area. Yeah. Um, so are you, um, seeing widely variant strategies [00:23:30] as you travel around the country and learn different ways people are attacking this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I think there are some, some trends. I mean, one thing to keep in mind that's tough is the major cost that many communities are facing right now across the nation is a simple replacing of their infrastructure in terms of like kind of like pipes in the ground. Um, these pipes are mostly laid in the 50 sixties and seventies. They're at their point where they need replacement. Um, and does that [00:24:00] alone has for the, for the nation has a huge price tag. So that is kind of, uh, and that means what you have when you, when you don't have good pipes is you have leaks and you have kind of, again, this kind of inefficient system. So the first thing to do, so community to decide, is it better for them to sort of address those leaky pipes before they invest in new supply?
Speaker 2:Because, um, you know, that sort of like the low hanging fruit before you start to do other stuff. So you're totally right though. It's [00:24:30] community by community that you meant matters there a kind of willingness to pay their supply options, their, their infrastructure status. So there is no one size fits all, even neighbor to neighbor. So it's, it's, it's remarkable. It's Kinda like, it doesn't make sense to put solar panels on your house if you haven't sealed the building envelope. Yes, true. Yeah. Yeah. It, you know, you want to kind of capture efficiencies when you can and, and being first thing about being efficient [00:25:00] in water is like not to lose water through a leaky toilet or leaky pipes or what have you. Um, kind of continuing that, um, vein for our listeners out there who we are in a drought here in California in a drought.
Speaker 2:Can you just remind us of some of the tactics we can all take as consumers to continue the conservation, um, kind of inertia or whatever your momentum sounds like it's happening, but what can we do to make [00:25:30] a better use of the water we have? Oh, that's a great question. Um, well we are in a drought and you know, Eh, it takes the contribution of everyone. I mean, you know, the governor and the State Water Resources Control Board are just put in a law where you can't use what I would call kind of thing. I think people should think about discretionary water use. I mean, this was about spraying your sidewalks. Like it's in a drought. You gotta use a broom, you know, um, you know, when it comes to watering your [00:26:00] lawn, that's discretionary. You know, if you don't need to use it, be mindful of not, you know, not using it in a place where we don't know if we're going to have water for kind of basic uses.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, maybe, so that's where we're starting and we're not at a point where, you know, everyone has to take navy showers, but you know, at least at this point it's very important to just limit discretionary water use. Be careful about what, you know, we at my house, we have um, buckets in our showers that we collect water to [00:26:30] take care of our garden and our plants. Um, you can keep a bucket in your kitchen sink and use that water as long as it's not soapy, um, for your garden. So things like that where it's simple kind of easy things that, that, you know, are just going to, um, help help everyone, um, keep kind of beat this drought.
Speaker 1:Okay. Yeah, that, that's great advice. And from your opinion, I'm, I mean, I grew up in California, I remember drought, like big droughts before. Yeah. How much [00:27:00] of this is, is related to climate change? Do you think? Or is it just this, we always have dropped patterns. We've absence history, I would think.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And this, this drought seems to be severe. I mean, and Joe is interesting because you can measure it in different ways. You can measure drought as a kind of like a hydrologic pattern and this one hydrologically is serious and long. Um, Joe can also be kind of an economic trout where simply, um, your supply doesn't meet demand [00:27:30] and, and, uh, California is a growing state, you know, populations are growing. So in that way, kind of the population pressures are making the impacts of the drought. Um, more serious. Uh, so in terms of climate change, it's hard. I mean it's not my area, but I think that this idea of wider swings in weather of both flood and drought patterns, it's hard to deny that we're seeing these wider swings. And, um, part of my job and my company's job is to help [00:28:00] water utilities kind of build their resilience to these larger swings among other types of changes, um, happening, uh, in our country.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well, and you did, you talked about your company and this is Christine Boyle, the founder and CEO of Valor, valor water analytics. And I always like to end the show by asking the question of an entrepreneur like yourself. Yeah. If everything broke totally right for your company five years from now, what would it look like?
Speaker 2:Um, that's a good [00:28:30] question. Uh, so w what we want is, you know, what we're selling to utilities, this idea of kind of business intelligence for water utilities and new tools to understand customers and enter in the, um, relationship between customers, revenue and sales. It's a new concept. So it's gonna take a little while to, but what we want is we want, we want to sell the concept, we want utilities to begin thinking this way because, you know, I honestly think that this is going to help strengthen their position [00:29:00] to, again, kind of provide clean and affordable water. So, uh, at some point we would like to partner with kind of larger organizations that are servicing utilities. Um, what are you telling? Is there thousands of water utilities? Um, so, you know, to, to kind of, to reach all those communities is a, is a big job. And eventually we'll, we'll partner with kind of larger organizations that are already kind of, uh, in these places in these communities to help. [00:29:30] Um, but I would love to see, you know, we need to sell the concept first and prove ourselves. So in five years, hopefully we'll have done that and really be kind of integrated into, um, utility operation.
Speaker 1:Okay. Exciting. Let's, you know, there's so many different types of innovation and this is one that I think people don't really understand how important is these are infrastructure investments that need to be made in the country to make us resilient and be able to withstand whatever is going to come our way. So thank you for the, the idea [00:30:00] and for coming on the show today. Really appreciate it. And if people want to learn more, how would they get in touch with you?
Speaker 2:Uh, you can, uh, reach me probably via email is the best, uh, christine@valorwater.com or look@valorwater.com and reach out to us. I like talking to everyone. I love talking to students. So, um, for the students in particular, um, my heart goes out to you for all your hard work and dedication and, um, always feel free to reach out.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well, thank you. Thanks for coming on the show [00:30:30] today. Christine, you've been listening to methods to the madness on k a l, Berkeley. My name is r, thanks for listening and have a great Friday. Everybody.
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