Oakland entrepreneur Jessica Gray Schipp shares her life's journey of coping with multiple food allergies and her book #AllergicToEverything, a cookbook and guide for people living with multiple food allergies.
Transcript:
Lisa:Method to the Madness is next. You're listening to Method to the Madness, a biweekly public affairs show on KALX Berkeley, celebrating Bay Area innovators. I'm your host, Lisa Kiefer, and today I'm speaking with Jessica Gray Schipp. She's the author of a new cookbook and guide for people suffering from multiple food allergies.
Welcome to the program, Jessica.
Jessica:Thank you.
Lisa:You just wrote this book called Allergic to Everything, which is an incredible guide and a cookbook for people with allergies. Are you allergic to everything?
Jessica:I'm allergic to several things. It's called #Allergic to Everything and I am allergic to wheat, gluten, corn, soy, oats, eggs, shellfish, and possibly sesame.
Lisa:You've been through a lot.
Jessica:Yes.
Lisa:This has taken decades to put this together. How did you figure out what to do first? Tell us your life's journey.
Jessica:Well, I knew I was lowered to shellfish when I was a little kid. I was about six and I had an anaphylactic reaction and that was really scary, so I kind of grew up conscious of what it was like to have that happen. And then when I was in my, I would say like mid-twenties, I started getting a lot of hives and odd reactions that I didn't know what it was.
Lisa:And this is out east?
Jessica:And this is on the East Coast, yeah. And I was just going to literally every type of doctor that I could think of. My mom's a nurse practitioner, so she was sending me to like specialists and using her network and my body just slowly got worse and worse and worse. And then I ended up in Bloomington, Indiana with a friend from grad school and I arrived on her doorstep and I essentially looked like I was just dead. I had sties, I had hives everywhere and I didn't even know kind of how sick I was because I was so used to living that way.
But she forced me to a doctor and they were basically like-
Lisa:That was the first time you'd seen a doctor about it?
Jessica:No, I had been seeing specialists but nobody identified it as food allergies and they didn't really know. So they just kept throwing me on steroids and different medications. And finally at that point in Bloomington, I was just in a place of I'm either dying of cancer or I have food allergies and I have to see what I can do. So I moved back home at that point and I did an elimination diet using all of these different tests I had gotten done with the food stuff because I was basically everything I reacted to. And I think that's also because my system was so hyperactive because it was so irritated all the time that it was triggering responses to more than what I really-
Lisa:What does that mean? Elimination Diet? Because you talk about that and you also talk about the symptom tracker that you put together, which is also in the book.
Jessica:Well I would say the elimination diet, I didn't start doing it with a symptom tracker. The one that's in the book is kind of a design that I came up with from trial and error and my experiences and what worked for me. I initially used something called a health minder, which I had found on Amazon and it was awesome, but it didn't quite track everything I wanted it to, so I've kind of made my own model.
But in terms of the elimination diet, I did that without tracking initially. You basically, a lot of people start with removing the top eight food allergens.
Lisa:And what are those?
Jessica:Those are wheat, eggs, milk, fish, shellfish, nuts and peanuts.
Lisa:Not corn?
Jessica:No, corn's not one of the top eight, but I guarantee you this is my philosophy actually because we're shoving it in so much of the food.
Lisa:Exactly.
Jessica:I'm almost positive that when they revamped that topic eight, that that's going to end up on there [crosstalk]
Lisa:I grew up in the Midwest and one of the things I noticed was the simultaneous rise of obesity and GMO corn farming.
Jessica:No kidding. No kidding.
Lisa:Even though no one is pinpointing that.
Jessica:Yeah, and it's cheap.
Lisa:Why do you think that's been left off the top?
Jessica:I think that just not... I don't know. I think there's not a lot of money in research right now for food allergies. There aren't even really very reliable tests that have been developed. Everything does a lot of false positives. So it's really weird, which going back to the elimination diet, that's really the best way to determine what's triggering things.
Lisa:It's very time consuming though, isn't it?
Jessica:It's very time consuming. Yeah. Yeah. The process of writing the book took about six years, but the process of getting through the elimination phase and starting to learn about foods probably took like three months but a good year of getting used to it because at first I was just eating a piece of cheese or string cheese, just really basic foods like seed crackers, just nuts, like very plain stuff. And then after I got comfortable with that, I was able to expand and start trying to figure out how to cook the foods that I really missed because there's a lot to be missed when you have to take so much out.
Lisa:So when you say "cook the foods you missed," coming up with recipes that would taste somewhat like them because you're not using the ingredients and that they've done in this book.
Jessica:Yes. Yeah, so it's really a book of kind of comfort food and super holiday friendly and things just like muffins and breads and pizza and pasta sauce and tacos and it's super kid friendly too, I would say. I think I just had this desire to go back to the foods that I had grown up with-
Lisa:Comfort food.
Jessica:And figure out... Yeah, exactly, and figure out how to go from there.
Lisa:Backing up a little bit, you were in Indiana, you went to this doctor, you started the elimination diet and then?
Jessica:And then it was a long process of kind of realizing that I had to start tracking certain things when I would have reactions because you're supposed to add one food back in at a time and then kind of wash yourself for up to basically three days, give or take. Because reactions can happen in many different ways. They can be on your skin, they can be in your digestive system, they can be instant or they can show up in three days. It's kind of a bizarre, bizarre world.
Lisa:And the other thing is if you're social at all and you go out to eat at people's homes or in restaurants.
Jessica:Yeah, don't trust anybody because nobody knows what they're talking about. And I love my friends and they are, some of them are really amazing and truly have an understanding and have memorized stuff and there are certain people that I really trust. But then there are other people who I know they intend well but they don't know that the shredded cheese that they're using happens to have corn starch on it to prohibit mold. And cornstarch really, really gets to me instantly. I get hives, which I hate. I hate when my symptoms show up on my body.
Lisa:Well, in a way that's good because then you know pretty quickly something's wrong.
Jessica:Right, that's true.
Lisa:In the midst of this discovery. Where were you shopping?
Jessica:I was in the Midwest at first and basically I went home pretty quickly after that. I went back to right outside of Washington, DC, in Arlington and I moved back in with my mom, which was hard because I had just gotten my master's and I thought I was going to go into the world rather than a retreat. But yeah, so I went home and my mom has always been very health conscious, so she... There's a little place called Mom's Organic Market and I think it's an Alexandria technically, but it's a great little like health food type of store. And I kind of stuck to stuff like that. And Trader Joe's for just basics, which I still love Trader Joe's today because they just offer so much of high quality stuff at amazing prices.
My mom trained me in the organic produce selection and I kind of did like a little work trade. So I did their grocery shopping and did some cooking. And in exchange I got to kind of take some time. I had asthma as a kid. My mom kind of suspected that I had some corn allergies as a kid too because she kind of thought that I would get like fussy when I ate things with corn syrup in it. So there were periods where she suspected it, but nothing was identified until I was 27 when all of this kind of came together.
Lisa:How did you get out here?
Jessica:I eventually started looking for jobs and I'd kind of always dreamed of California and I found an AmeriCorps position working in East Oakland at a school and the whole idea was kind of like teaching creativity and putting creativity back into the classroom, which my undergrad was an art education so it was a really good fit and they give you a stipend to help you move across. So I ended up driving my little Honda Civic out here and it was pretty beautiful and incredible. And then I ended up, I thought I was coming to California and I was going to be this picturesque mountains and everything. And then I wound up like right in the middle of another city and it was kind of like what?
Lisa:You mean like East Oakland?
Jessica:Yeah. Being here has been the most incredible part of this journey. The food culture here is phenomenal. Really, you just have access to everything
Lisa:People don't realize that unless they've lived elsewhere.
Jessica:Yes.
Lisa:Because if you're in the Midwest, you have to carve out time to find organic food.
Jessica:Yes. Or those little co-ops. The co-ops are like the way to go.
Lisa:The co-ops, they're usually near universities.
Jessica:Totally. Yeah.
Lisa:It's not easy.
Jessica:No, no.
Lisa:To find good food.
Jessica:That's, yeah, 100% I agree with that. Yeah, and I guess that's been the blessing of being here is just that a whole... Like Berkeley Bowl and just a whole new world happened for me and I moved in with a bunch of foodies and learned a lot from them. And so all of these different things kind of came together.
Lisa:And how did your allergies, did it improve here or...
Jessica:Yeah. Yeah, it's been actually a drastic difference. I think the climate is better for me in some ways. So I think my skin in general has been a lot less irritated, but, but I think my quality of life has been better since moving out here. And I'm not sure exactly why.
Lisa:If you're just tuning in, you're listening to Method to the Madness, a biweekly public affairs show on KALX Berkeley, celebrating Bay Area innovators. Today I'm speaking with Oakland based entrepreneur, Jessica Gray Schipp, the author of a book called Allergic to Everything for people suffering from multiple food allergies.
So tell me when you decided to write this book.
Jessica:I didn't really specifically decide to write it at first, I just started writing down the recipes that were working for me and I had a little notebook. I've always, you can see my journal here, I always have a journal. And so I just kind of started writing down what was working and I had some friends over for dinner and my friend Phil had asked me like, "What is that recipe? How did you do that? I can't even tell it's allergen free," which was kind of this real goal of mine was to trick the people into thinking the food had all their allergens.
But yeah, and he looked at the notebook and he was just like, "Jess, you should publish this." And I hadn't considered that and I didn't think of it that way. And then I kind of ran with it.
Lisa:And then when you say "ran with it," what are the steps that you took?
Jessica:Well, it was more of a jog because I was teaching full time. So I started in the summers when I had my summers off. The first summer I basically typed up this notebook and wound up with about, or I guess it took me two summers to do that, but I wound up with about 115 recipes that I developed. And then more recently, so in August, I actually left my teaching job to do this full time and try to give it a real stab. And I sat down and wrote the guide, which I didn't realize was going to be so lengthy but-
Lisa:It's comprehensive. I really enjoyed that.
Jessica:Thank you for saying that.
Lisa:Well yeah, you...
Jessica:Thank you for saying that.
Lisa:Not only recipes but you list resources for people, you get into household cleaning substances, that you can make on your own. I was surprised how comprehensive. It's over 200 pages.
Jessica:Thank you. Yeah-
Lisa:And also what to put in a pantry.
Jessica:Right? Like your staples and where to get them and how to do it and you can do it affordably and you can also spend a lot of money on this stuff. There's a million ways to do it. Yeah, and it was fascinating to kind of go in because I think before moving out to California, I hadn't started to consider what was in the products I was using on my skin, for example. I was using really sensitive simple lotions and stuff like that. But for hair-
Lisa:But even laundry detergent.
Jessica:Or laundry detergent, exactly.
Lisa:And people use these softeners and they always smell.
Jessica:And they're full of chemicals and it's gross stuff and it irritates sensitive skin even if you don't have allergens. So just kind of all of that stuff has gone into it. And then just simple things like reading ingredient labels.
Lisa:Just today I read an article that the USDA, they just announced now that instead of saying whether something has GMO ingredients, genetically modified, now they are opting for bio-engineered or BE on products. Some people think it's to avoid the labeled GMO because that's kind of a bad thing.
Jessica:It has a stigma.
Lisa:But it also allows companies to choose between the option of either writing out the warning saying, "This contains bio engineered food," include a just a BE label or this code that you have to swipe, which they assume most consumers will not do. It seems like it's a constant battle to get the true ingredients listed because...
Jessica:Well, I want to comment on what you were just saying about the labeling of food. I think that that's one of the most frustrating things because you can slap all natural on it and it means absolutely nothing. They allow a lot of loopholes in this kind of stuff, which is why it's so important no matter what to flip the package over and actually read the ingredients.
Lisa:Some of these ingredients, you look at them and you don't even know how to say them.
Jessica:Well, and that's my rule. I have a 10 ingredient or less rule and you need to be able to pronounce all of them. The chemicals, it just, it's really unreal.
Lisa:And this is mostly processed food.
Jessica:It's mostly processed food, yeah, that has that.
Lisa:So people who are shopping the middle aisles are going to see more of that.
Jessica:Correct. Yeah. I'm a big a perimeter shopper now. I go into the middles for my brown rice pasta or some crackers.
Lisa:Or olive oils.
Jessica:Or olive oil, yeah, definitely loved my olive oil. I've been leaning into avocado oil too. That's-
Lisa:And you talk about coconut being a good alternative to corn oils and things like that.
Jessica:Yes. I think one of the interesting things was too with my skin, how irritated it was at the beginning of this journey. I started just trying to figure out natural things I could use to moisturize because normal lotion wasn't working. So coconut oil was something that was really, I was just like slathering it on. And it was really, really healing for me, which was interesting because a lot of doctors had told me to try these lotions with oats, which I hadn't realized at first that I was allergic too.
There are also gluten free versions, but oats just in general give me a scarf rash. And so it was really weird and it was like making me more and more irritated. So then I started going backwards and doing just really simple like olive oil on my skin and it was amazing.
Lisa:The difference.
Jessica:And anti-inflammatory and yeah.
Lisa:So tell me the difference between allergy and a simple intolerance.
Jessica:It shows up differently in symptoms. Some things are more severe and tolerance is like your body and your system just can't handle it.
Lisa:Is that worse than an allergy?
Jessica:Yeah, because you're hurting yourself and you might not necessarily be aware. Like, if you continue, let's say you're a celiac and you're eating gluten, that can lead to huge complications where your digestive system just stops functioning on its own. There's all these thresholds. But I find all of those areas, like I go into it in the book but at the same time I find, I don't like all of the little narrow paths that they put with this. Like if a food doesn't work for you, I think it's good to stay away from it and find an alternative.
Because people talk about food sensitivities and food intolerance and food allergy and what is the difference? And it's confusing but I think with intolerance is really your body won't tolerate it and you just have all these weird symptoms and you're used to living with them. So you go with it and you don't realize what's on the other side when you...
Lisa:So it affects your mental health as well.
Jessica:Yeah. Oh definitely. I think so hugely.
Lisa:In your book, you lay out in a really nice way the daily symptom tracker also sort of a guide for the elimination diets. So this book is something somebody can actually start writing in right away.
Jessica:Right.
Lisa:Is that your copyrighted food tracker?
Jessica:Yes.
Lisa:It's not available yet?
Jessica:No.
Lisa:To the public. How did you finance publishing book? How are you doing it?
Jessica:I took everything I had saved up from my teaching salary, which was challenging, and my Grandma Donna passed away a couple years ago and left me a little bit of money and I was going to use it for a business or an investment on a house and I decided to put it into this book because I just really believe in it. So I've put about $25,000 into getting to-
Lisa:Of your own personal money.
Jessica:Yeah, of my own money, into it now. And to finish the project, I decided to go onto Kickstarter and so the project is live now and it's live through June 17th at 11:11 PM.
Lisa:And what are you trying to raise on Kickstarter?
Jessica:$33,000.
Lisa:And that'll take you to where you need to...
Jessica:And that'll take me to where I need to be and to do it properly, to get the editing done and the printing, to mail out the rewards. Shipping is phenomenal when it comes to Kickstarter, which was a really interesting to learn.
Lisa:What do you mean?
Jessica:I would say about a third of that amount of money is what it costs to actually send the rewards to the backers. It adds up. And if you can do media mail for books, which is great, but if you add in-
Lisa:What are your rewards for backers?
Jessica:Currently we have the book. I have a dinner party option, so that's kind of low end, high end, and then in the middle there are gift sets so you can do like an apron gift set. I'm really, really big into aprons. I'm in love with them. I started sewing my own and then I just actually added a new reward, which I'm really excited about, which is a grocery tote but also a cooler. So it's kind of like bring it to the grocery store or to the picnic because I know you're carrying all your own food if you're allergic. And I'm trying to keep it really, really simple because it's really about the book at the root of it.
Lisa:And how do people find out about a Kickstarter campaign?
Jessica:I have a URL that is forwarding right now straight to the Kickstarter so people can go to hashtag, the word hashtag, and the word allergic together, hashtagallergic.com.
Lisa:Not the symbol, the word?
Jessica:No the word. Yeah, so hashtag written out, allergic written.com and it'll take you right there. But also if you're on Kickstarter you can just type in the word allergic or allergies and it should come right up.
Lisa:And you also have a website?
Jessica:Yes.
Lisa:What is the link to that?
Jessica:The website is allergictoeverything.life and on the website, this has been kind of a new experiment and I'm still playing around with it. At first it was a platform to share what was going on with the Kickstarter, but I've been working on starting a blog and sharing some recipes through there. So I don't have a huge collection, but it's something I'm going to keep growing so people can go on there for food, food tips, and I have all my favorite resources. I have recipes for my food allergy purse.
Lisa:Do you ever list restaurants that might accommodate allergies in the Bay Area?
Jessica:No, but that's something that I am really interested in doing actually. And I think that we live in such a friendly place for that. A couple of days ago, a woman from Toronto who has, that's kind of her mission in the food allergy world. She reviews places you can eat and she does profiles of people. So she did a profile of me and she really wanted to get into the places that you know you can eat and that are friendly. And I think that that's so important and I think we're really lucky on the West Coast to have such-
Lisa:We are, but you made a point earlier that it was a good one. Even your friends, let's say someone decides they're going to have you over and you're allergic to allium, which is onions, garlic and all this stuff.
Jessica:Right?
Lisa:And they say, "There's nothing, I swear to you, there's nothing in this." And yet they use a canned broth.
Jessica:Correct.
Lisa:In a soup or a sauce, which is full of allium.
Jessica:And probably maltodextrin.
Lisa:And it doesn't say it on the label. It says "natural ingredients."
Jessica:Right. That's the most unfair.
Lisa:And so you can't get mad at people, but there needs to be a raising of awareness and that's something that you've done in this book.
Jessica:Yeah. And I think that's my biggest motivation for all of this is... Well, it's really to make people's lives easier, learning how to navigate all these little intricacies, but awareness is so important because people just don't know and it's not their fault. It's just a matter of education and...
Lisa:I just noticed there's more and more food allergies and I can't help but think that it's our air, it's our water, it's our soil. I don't know if anyone is looking at the root causes of this.
Jessica:Yeah, I don't think many people are. I think there's a lot of people burying the root causes.
Lisa:You don't mention it in your book either. But depending on where you come from, what you're exposed to.
Jessica:One of the things that I think about a lot with that, which gets me a little crazy if I think about it too much, but is the fact that, so I'm able to eat meat, right? And let's say I want to eat a steak, but they're feeding that cow corn, which I'm allergic to.
Lisa:GMO corn probably.
Jessica:Yeah. So how does it affect me with the end product? And that's just something that is mind boggling and...
Lisa:It is, but out here you can actually seek out a butcher that that gets meat from local people who they know what they're feeding the animals. But that's not true in most places.
Jessica:Right, and most of the population doesn't have that luxury. And if they do, maybe they can't afford it. There's a lot of barriers to it, but I think it's a really systemic problem that needs to be looked at from the ground up. But when we keep coming up with these new, what did you say it was going to be, BE, on the package?
Lisa:Yes, bio engineering.
Jessica:And the natural ingredients.
Lisa:It's deflecting.
Jessica:It's deflecting. It's like the whole sugar thing in the 70s or whenever that whole epidemic started, but it's really incredible the lengths that companies go through to bury the truth from people and to just keep people uneducated.
Lisa:Even sugar, it's not so easy in some places to find something made from natural sugar. It's either going to be genetically modified sugar beets or corn.
Jessica:Yeah, and sugar is super inflammatory too, so it kind of all comes out the same in your system. But corn syrup, I really, I just really hate that stuff. I just feel like it's toxic and it's in everything.
Lisa:What were your biggest challenges along the way or maybe surprises along the way as well in this whole process of getting this book out?
Jessica:Well, I'm in the midst of the challenges right now. It's been really hard to connect with the community that I'm trying to connect with because there's a lot of barriers. So-
Lisa:What are they?
Jessica:I'm part of a lot of groups online for example with like food allergy communities. But I'm not allowed to post my project because it's seen as fundraising or an endorsement of a fundraising project. And same thing with every single organization that I've reached out to and I'm sending thirties of emails a day trying to get people to help me put this out there.
So that's been the greatest challenge and the greatest barrier really. This isn't even about profit, it's just about getting it into the hands of people who need it, the hands of people who are struggling or just foodies who want to cook. Because really the book is... Anybody can use it. It's not, you by no means have to be allergic to appreciated.
So connecting with people has been challenging and I feel like I've really had to prove myself in ways that have just been shocking to me. I didn't think I would have to beg food allergy people to see me as an authentic person just trying to put a resource out there.
Lisa:Any positive surprises or challenges?
Jessica:A lot of positive surprises. I've been just in awe of the support of family and friends and I had an amazing launch day, which was just incredible. But just-
Lisa:When was your launch date?
Jessica:I launched on May 15th during Food Allergy Awareness Week. So the campaign will be a total of 33 days. It ends on June 17th.
Lisa:Let's talk about what you're going to do if you do make it. And if you don't make it.
Jessica:To make the goal, I need a 1000 people to put $20 into the project. I think it's really feasible. And if the project succeeds, the plan is then I want the rewards to get out to people and the book itself to get out to people by December. So I will just jump right into the editing phase and illustration and then getting the book printed and shipped out.
So I've been working with editors and plotting around that. I think it should take about between four and six months. I've given myself a lot of given myself enough padding, I think to make that happen. I really believe in this book and I'm not really focused on what's going to happen if it doesn't work because it's going to work. So on June 17th, I will know and I'm just kind of trusting that the next thing, yeah, will come and it will happen.
Lisa:And so then you're going to be busy touring with this book.
Jessica:Then I'm going to be really busy. Yeah, if it hasn't been busy enough, Kickstarter has been an adventure. It's a lot of work.
Lisa:Let's say you get the book out and you're onto the next thing. Do you know what that's going to be?
Jessica:Well I already have a another book in mind that is going to be like #Allergic to Everything Light because I think this book has a lot of comfort, delicious recipes. And I think that my cooking has shifted over time. So I kind of want to put just my newer, lighter. Yeah, just a little bit healthier. Initially, the things that I missed were breads and things with sugar in it and things like that. But no matter what, I've always been a teacher and I'll always be a teacher. So however I can teach, that's what I'll be doing.
I was teaching for about five years, everything from yearbook to coaching robotics actually here at Berkeley. I was with high school most recently. And I think something that I think about in the future is teaching on the college level. I've kind of snaked my way up through all the grades and I found a really sweet spot in high school. But I think there's a really sweet spot in young adulthood when you're studying what you want and learning how you can manipulate the world and leave it a better place.
Lisa:Do you feel like you've reached your comfort zone of allergies? You have your allergies under control?
Jessica:I think I have my allergies under control. I don't always have temptation under control because it's a tempting world when everybody you live with is eating pizza. It's not always that easy not to eat it. Certain things I noticed trigger me and I'm still looking at them, like sesame for example. I kind of think that sesame oil causes me issues, but then I don't always think so. So I don't know. I think it's kind of an ongoing process.
Yeah, and something to revisit too because a lot of people end up removing things and their system kind of gets this little break and then they're able to reincorporate them, which I've tried that. I haven't found that to be successful for myself, but I think it's possible for a lot of people, so yeah, I think it's a lifelong.
Lisa:In your research, do you think that the human body will evolve to accept these bio engineered or GMO products ultimately?
Jessica:I feel like we're evolving to reject them. If you look at just the ratio of wheat in things and the ratio of corn in things and that with the number of people affected by these things and the rate of the increase of allergens being diagnosed, especially in kids, it's outrageous. I don't think that we're helping ourselves. I think we're hiding a lot of things behind big bureaucratic systems.
The way that the book is written is to be able to be used by anybody who's dealing with any of the top eight allergens. And this question has come up a lot by people looking at the project, wondering if their child's allergic to dairy and nuts, will they still be able to eat? And the answer is yes because every recipe is going to be flexible and your allergen will be able to be substituted within that. And I would say only 30% of the book probably contains those two items.
So even without the flexibility of the recipes, there's still a ton of resources for everybody, but it is friendly to to all top eight allergens. And part of the reason that I wanted to do that is because I know that nobody's journey is the same and nobody's allergens look exactly the same and mine aren't all the top eight, but the top eight are responsible for 90% of the food allergic reactions. So I wanted to try to include as many people as I could.
I think the things that made me fall in love with food, I think the food is all about our memories and about our experiences and little things go a long way and food attaches us to memories. And that's how we make memories with each other. And there's just a real sense of comfort in it, whether it was my grandmother taking the time to slice the grapes for the fruit salad and just shows love.
Friendsgiving is how I started celebrating Thanksgiving when I came out here and just bringing people together. And I think that food really connects us with each other and with ourselves. And it's a big reflection on how we're taking care of ourselves and I think it's important and I think this book is important. I hope that people will consider supporting the project regardless of whether or not you have food allergies. Because I can practically guarantee, you know somebody who has food allergies and they deserve this resource.
Lisa:Well, thank you, Jessica.
Jessica:Thank you.
Lisa:You've been listening to Method to the Madness, a biweekly public affairs show on KALX Berkeley, celebrating Bay Area innovators. You can find all of our podcasts on iTunes University. We'll be back in two weeks at this same time.
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