Lawyer, TV host, playwright, and author Wajahat Ali joins Method to the Madness to talk about how he went from UC Berkeley undergrad to becoming one of the most well known and well respected voices of moderate American Muslims.
TRANSCRIPT
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:You're listening to KLX Berkeley at 90.7 FM and this is method to the madness and shove coming at you from the Public Affairs Department here at Calex celebrating the innovative spirit of the bay area. I'm your [00:00:30] host, Elliot Huizar and today we have UC Berkeley's own or Jihad Ali, which Ah, Ali is a lawyer, a playwright, an essayist, a. He's appeared in the Washington Post, the Guardian Salon Atlantic. He's a consultant to the USD department. Uh, and currently also his hosts of Al Jazeera, America's social media driven talk show of the stream. And [inaudible] joined us via phone, myself and my partner Lisa Kiefer over phone to talk about the Muslim [00:01:00] American experience in America. And first off we talked about how he grew up as a Muslim American in the bay area.
Speaker 3:You know, I was, I am essentially a multi hyphenated multicultural kid, born and raised in the bay area, who, you know, I'm an American Muslim of bucks I need to send and it very much, I am a product of both old school and new school America, right? Old School, American music, traditional immigrant story, new school America, you know, having to danced the [00:01:30] fault lines of this man, a minority majority country, which I think, uh, is the major cultural shift that we are kind of embracing and rejecting as a country right now, which will really speak volumes about how we evolve or devolve as a nation in the next 20 years. And for me, you know, growing up as awkward a fact and in our tradition of South Asian tradition, you never say fed said quote unquote healthy. I was a very, very, very healthy, [00:02:00] awkward, a set of bucks.
Speaker 3:Any immigrants whose parents thought it'd be hilarious to teach them only three words of English. And you know, I had tumeric and lentil stands on my shirt. And um, you know, I ended up going to all boys Bowerman Catholic high school. And then I went to UC Berkeley where I ended up, ironically graduated with an English major. So if to actually kind of look at my background, it is very an American background, but totally very culturally specific lens of an American that, uh, is seen right now in [00:02:30] this moment in history as an outsider, as an other, as a threat, as an antagonist. You know, the Muslim boogeyman. And I think what's interesting is this is nothing really new. If we kind of look back in American history, this has happened before to the LGBT community still happens. Mexican immigrants, African-Americans, Japanese Americans, Irish Catholics and Jewish Americans. And for me, just by virtue of growing up, I had a decision to make whether or not I was going to share my story and engage with people or whether I was going to compartmentalize these different aspects of my t my right, [00:03:00] yes.
Speaker 3:Shamed my brown Nester or be ashamed of my mostly mean this or be ashamed of my Americanist. And then, you know, I just decided early on, I think that by virtue, by early on, I mean like eventually you grow up and you realize, I'm always going to be a Dorky outlier. Like, I'm never going to be like that dude who gets like Jessica though. Like you know the hot white girl and he gets invited to like join the all star track team or football team. I'm always going to be that awkward multi-syllabic healthy kid. And I think somewhere in college [00:03:30] I made peace with the fact that I'm never going to fit into this model, a narrative of a quote unquote America that didn't represent me and I was just going to be myself and let my freak flag fly. And the reason why I mentioned that is kind of, this was a gradual evolution, right?
Speaker 3:Cause I was always an outlier, but I was always this guy who wanted to share my stories, my culture, my identity, my experiences with my classmates and I always did. And growing up in the bay area, like you guys know, it's such an ethnically diverse community [00:04:00] that you're forced to interact with people who are different than you. And I kind of was innately, if you will, a storyteller without me realizing it. And I did it purely for the joy of doing it, number one. Number two being an awkward, Dorky fat kid usually would for survival because anyone who's run on fatness listen to this. You know, elementary school every day is like world war three and you literally are not the fastest kid on the block cause you're like fat, but you can be them the sharpest can you do. The [inaudible] school was also good survival survival tool and it's uh, you [00:04:30] know, to win over my bullies.
Speaker 3:And number three, I just kind of really enjoyed it. I, I, you know, I could make people laugh. I could tell stories and kind of this innate trait that I had growing up in childhood, you know, just telling stories, making movies with my friends, uh, writing small sketches, uh, was the DNA essentially without me realizing it, of what I do now as a profession. And I think storytelling is the key way for us to kind of bridge the divide that exists not only within America, but actually what's happening, quote unquote, between [00:05:00] the West and Islam. I have a question about your impetus because I know Ishmael Reed and I understand that he really should be getting a little credit here for getting you kind of on the right path to your real passion. When he asked you to write a play for his class about a Pakistani American experience after nine 11.
Speaker 3:I think that's a great story. And um, and then it led to your play. Can you talk about the play that came out of that? [00:05:30] So I've been very lucky and privileged in my life for, for many reasons, but one of the privileges I've had as I've had great mentors and also my parents have not been stereotypical South Asian immigrant parents. They've also, they've always encouraged me, uh, since my childhood they spotted a talent and they always told me to write issue. I'll read those of you who don't know MacArthur Genius Appeal that your prize nominated Titan who was living in Oakland with his family. Uh, Carla Blank. Also his partner in crime for the past 40 years. He was my English professor, [00:06:00] uh, back in the day when I was at UC Berkeley as an English major. And in fall, September, 2001, I happen to be in a short story writing class and after the two towers fell, he took me aside and said, you know, I've never, I've never really heard about the Pakistani American experience or the Muslim American experience, even though this is a short story writing class.
Speaker 3:I think you are actually a natural playwright. I think dialogue and characters are your strengths. Don't waste your time on this class. I'm going to take you out of this class. [00:06:30] You're gonna have 20 pages of a play to pass the class. Okay, great. Go write it. And I was like, oh my God, please let me do anything except this. And the play that came as a result of him quite literally forcing me to write it as the domestic crusaders, which is an old school kitchen drama in the form of American dramas. Like you know, Long Day's journey into night, death of a salesman, fences one day in the life of three generations of a Fox. Any American Muslim family, six characters, uh, that grandfather, the immigrant parents who have achieved the American dream. [00:07:00] And there's three American born children all forced to reconvene in the house for before the youngest son's 21st birthday.
Speaker 3:And Ishmael literally kept at it for like a year telling me to, you know, to, to, to finish this place. Start it from my 21st birthday in the fall of 2001, I submitted my 20 pages to pass the damn class. And then I finally finished it for my 23rd birthday again after I graduated from college. And Ishmael kept at it and then he handed it over to his wife, Carla Blank, who became [00:07:30] the director and dramaturge at this plate and this small little play that has origin and UC Berkeley in the bay area. And then Adam Heran Indian restaurant and Johnny restaurant in Newark, California. And then, you know, Oakland Library. Then went onto Berkeley repertory theater, then went on to New York, then I went up to the county center, then I went to London and got published, uh, [inaudible], which is again a bury a staple, uh, in 2000, I think 10 or 2011 as the first major and Muslim American play they got published.
Speaker 3:So that type of [00:08:00] mentorship was key. And the story behind the play I truncated like 13 years is one minute is really kind of remarkable and uh, you know, we, you know, just to show you how sometimes it can be a little bit ahead of the curve. Each model has always been a bit ahead of the curve in spotting kind of thing and it's finding trends. And he always told me to, that was a bit discouraged on 2003, 2004, I'm like, man, I thought the play would picked up and it didn't. He said, he said, listen, America isn't ready yet, but just wait and watch all these other plays are coming out and now they're going to fade. There'll [00:08:30] be talking about your plan 10 years from now just to just your weight. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, whatever. You know. Sometimes he can be very hyperbolic, the people that he praises. And then just one a month ago, university of Maryland tweets out a photo, a professor from the English Department without a photo like teaching and performing, which has all these domestic visitors' with all these white actors playing the box, any American family members as part of the curriculum at University of Minnesota, Peter, that each year and then like London is doing it. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:[00:09:00] You're listening to method to the madness on KALX Berkeley 90.7 FM. This is an interview over the phone with [inaudible] Ali, the host of Elijah Z or America's the stream social media driven talk show. He's also a author in playwright, a bay area native and UC Berkeley Grad. Uh, we continued our conversation, myself and Lisa keeper with him talking about him getting his play publish and pilot shopping in Hollywood
Speaker 3:just to get it published [00:09:30] was based on the promise I made to an Egyptian budding scholar in 2009, this Egyptian scholar with getting her phd. Then she says Alan write about domestic crusaders, specifically American Muslim art and respond to post nine 11, you know, when it comes to cultural creation, but I need all my works that I write about to be published. And that for some strange reason that said, don't worry like 2010, I'll get it published and then like fast forward. So, but yeah, so the play's getting published, right? I'm like, Oh crap. And so that led to my, you know, friendship with Dave Eggers [00:10:00] and McSweeney's, you know, on a whim, emailing them, saying that they wanted to publish to the play. And I made a vow to myself. I remember when I was like 25 and I said, I'll get the pig to play published.
Speaker 3:By the time I turned 30 and mixed, [inaudible] called me and said to come over. And I held the copy, the first copy of the domestic crusaders a day after I turned 30, November 2nd, 2010. So somehow, you know, it was interesting like it took an Egyptian scholar, uh, and I think there was also [00:10:30] an Algerian scholar in London who have written about and under thesis on it to kind of get me off my ass to get it published. It gets published here in mixed Sweeney's and the barrier and get get being taught now kind of across America and across the Atlantic. So it's, it's a wild story but probably probably the TV show pilot that you've written with Dave. It's based on the domestic crusaders, correct? No, it's completely original idea that we had. And um, I read that Atlantic article [00:11:00] and it sounds like you've pulled back from HBO because you didn't, it didn't really, they were taking it in to an area that you didn't want to go. And I wanted to ask you about that. Like how is your story different from the TV show all American Muslim and why did you guys feel that maybe America isn't ready for it yet or I don't know.
Speaker 3:We still think Americans ready for it. We think America domestic, we actually were ahead of the curve because I think the TV shows about Yemeni American Muslims. [00:11:30] It's about the American Muslim community of the bay area and the lead character is MJ and [inaudible], yet many American immigrants who becomes one of the fastest rising detectives of the SFPD. Now we get over this idea like three and a half years ago, anyone who's been paying attention to international news, there's a country which is in all the headlines Right now. Yemen and HBO was a fantastic partner and they really dug the idea that we pitched. However, we wrote this kind of during the Heyday [00:12:00] of homeland and walking down and in and, but we kind of realized prior second draft that I think HBO just creatively wanting to go into more John [inaudible], John Rhe driven shows and ours was, remains a very unique different type of beast.
Speaker 3:It has its own pace. It has its own tone as his own sense of humor. It's not, it's something deliberately unlike what you've seen on television, right? Like television, HBO would go for something like that. They do choose [00:12:30] odd, you know, they're, you're kind of ahead of the curve in that way. So I'm still maybe, you know, look, two things could have happened. Maybe this was their cup of tea. They pass on good shows all the time and good people pass on good shows or B, maybe they started, it sucked. And so Dave and I are like, maybe our pilot sucks. And, but secretly, secretly, deep down we knew it did it. You know, it's one of those things, you know, if it's good or not. And so I'm kind of a stubborn piece of crap, if you will. And if I believe in something, and same of the day [00:13:00] we don't, we don't let it die.
Speaker 3:And so we've been pushing it and once we finally publish it on [inaudible], I think two months ago that I wrote an essay about in the Atlantic, it just seems like anyone who's read the piece, right. But even in Hollywood, I got some meetings with Hollywood agents. We all liked the pilot. That's the funny thing. No one says the [inaudible]. Everyone digs it. The question remains, is there a quote unquote market for us? And I think that's the problem with mainstream media and mainstream Hollywood is that there's this fear as this hesitation that, [00:13:30] okay, if you have a, I'll do an example, a totally different story, but I was pitching another pilot and basically all these, you know, studio heads and agents, par agents met and they're like, great idea, but we can't find a bankable Arab American lead. And I'm like, you'll need a bank of oil Arab American lead.
Speaker 3:You just need someone who's good. But that just goes to shoot the mindset of not only Hollywood but also Wall Street. You know, the color of the matters in the end is green. So right now they're like, they kept pitching some names, which was hilarious. Like how about as these, I'm sorry, I'm like, I love these. [00:14:00] I'm sorry. Is it really a San Francisco police detective? You really listen to this? I got nothing again through these. I'm sure you can pull it off, but the point, I'm trying to say that it came down to that bankability and so Dave and I to this day, I'm like, just have faith in it. Make a pilot. Anyone who's read the script, like everyone has read the ship, knock on woods. This is dope. This is unique. This is needed. This was necessary. This is really good. [00:14:30] So I'm going to still push it. And now we finally have the interest a couple of years after it was written. So let's hope that let's cross our fingers. I just want to get up, get out of it.
Speaker 2:You're listening to method to the madness on KALX Berkeley 90.7 FM and we're speaking with, with Giachali, a author, lawyer, playwright, s e s in places like the Washington Post and the Guardian Salon Atlantic. He's a expert in Muslim American affairs and host of Al Jazeera America, social media driven [00:15:00] talk show the stream and Lisa keeper. And I interviewed him over the phone and we talked about how did he take the leap from graduating with a law degree to becoming a commentator on TV.
Speaker 3:I, I graduated from law school, uh, I think I was about 26. It was 2007. And you guys remember what happened in 2008 and that was right at the cusp of this, you know, this, this great recession and I could not find a job to save my life despite [00:15:30] my best efforts. And despite like all these big companies taking a lot of interest in. So I moved back to my, my house, which was my parents house. And I'm like literally sitting in my college bedroom broke as a licensed attorney. You know, she just turned 27. And my father every day used to put $5 in my wallet cause he said, no man should be without $5. You know, I'm getting South Asian groceries from my mom and I'm feeling miserable and like I'm feeling pitied. And essentially I spent the first half of the day, like [00:16:00] cranky out resumes.
Speaker 3:I really worked hard, just nothing stuck, nothing stuck. And, uh, on a whim and just like, you know, madness, I'm like, I just crank out an essay. And at that time, if you guys remember, the Blackwater scandal was all and used in 2007, and Blackwater was a private military contractor, uh, still has that, had committed a lot of atrocities in Iraq. And I'm like, wow. In my second year of law school, I actually wrote a paper on private military firms in Iraq and the legality of such firms in Iraq. So I said, since I know about this [00:16:30] one, I transformed my 30 page paper and look at five page essay. I wrote the essay, I sent it to counterpunch on a whim counter punch, published it and said this was really good. You know, anytime you get something else, send it our way. I said word.
Speaker 3:I said, okay. So then next week I send them something else. I said, fantastic. Send us something else. The next week I sent him something else. And then there was another website started from a UC Berkeley Grad Shahad the amount of the Altima, muslim.com he saw domestic crusader as in its first incarnation at the open public library. [00:17:00] And he followed my career and he said, hey, if you ever want to write for us, write for us. So I did in the period of about six months on a whim, I think I ended up cracking down like 50 pieces. I was at the Tasmanian Devil owes a man possessed and I didn't know what I was doing right? Like I just literally had a broken yellow Ethan and cable attached to a dying Fujitsu Laptop in my bedroom of my parents' home with two months fans on my shirts. And I, I literally crank out article after article interview after interview and I bought six [00:17:30] or seven months in, I got this invitation at the UC Berkeley, not the Berkeley one.
Speaker 3:Once I graduate theology center right by UC Berkeley. Right. GTU and they're like, hey Carnegie has given us a funding to host like something on journalism and can you come as a new media journalist and talk about new media to these old school journalists? I'm like, who am I? Why are you inviting me? And they're like, oh cause you're a new media journalist. I'm like, I am. Okay. I have no idea. So they started referring to me as a new media journalist and as an interviewer and as [00:18:00] a SAS. And then, you know, at that time I was like, who am I? I'm just one guy living in Fremont. I'm not going to do commentary pieces. But on a whim, on the whim, asa foleys, who became elected president, what was chosen as president does the party one in Pakistan, he hugged, if you remember Sarah Palin, it's like 2008 and so I was sitting there and I'm like, I've got to write something.
Speaker 3:So on a whim, I cranked out kind of Jericho, but serious, a thousand word essay. [00:18:30] And I had this one contact from the Guardian. I sent it to him. I'm like, he's never gonna respond to me. Richard Adams from the Guardian response back within two hours. So I love this essay, I'm going to publish it tomorrow, send me any other pitches you've got. So I'm like, okay. And so now I became a commentator. And so one thing led to another and then I made the leap to like SAS to national team. And then I'm curious, what was your seamless, my theme was basically I used this very awkward social interaction [00:19:00] as a metaphor for the dysfunctional volatile relationship between the United States and Pakistan, and I just kind of put it in the context of modern history and I kind of had some tongue in cheek comments about us.
Speaker 3:I believe there was already and Sarah Helen as political neophytes, who somehow might be able to control nuclear nations. It was a terrifying prospect for the future of the world, both the United States, Canada, Pakistan, and a little bit tongue in cheek, but it was grounded in reality and in facts. And so [00:19:30] as this was happening, I ended up, I was also a solo attorney paying my bills as this was happening. I also made the vow, this was 2008 that by 2009 nine 11 I would premiere my play, the domestic crusaders in New York. And the reason why I said that it was as if there's a dude named Barack Hussein. Obama might become president and maybe that play I wrote six years ago might be more valuable at a topical now than ever before. So sitting there like literally with my broken [00:20:00] fcoe Ethernet cable, I somehow plotted this ambitious vision and long story short, you know I ended up merging these three or four careers into one and everyone at that time laughed at me.
Speaker 3:They're like, you can only be one thing. You can only be an attorney or you can be a writer or it can be a journalist or a blogger or a playwright who can be any of the above. It can be all of the above. And I really rejected that and said, I think I'm going to try all of the above and below. You hold those people and [00:20:30] that's why I kind of made the leap. It wasn't necessarily a leap, Ali, it was like this long lonely uphill trudge towards the tour, the synthesizing, if you will, all these interests, we can kind of think about it. It's all anchored in storytelling as well. How we start off this conversation and that's how I made the condition. Took a couple of years, I finally pulled it off. You wrote your short, credible, you wrote this incredible report that really called out some people that it called Fear Inc roots of the Islamophobia Network [00:21:00] in America.
Speaker 3:That was, I guess that was more political than, well it's all political, but that put you in the spotlight. That was something that happened as a result of all this crazy stuff that I just described for the past five minutes of history. How the world works out. Center for American progress is a, you know, a think tank in Washington d C and many people call it, you know, quote Unquote Obama think tank. It's very, you know, progressive, Democrat friendly. And I knew [00:21:30] some of those folks who were following my storyteller, SAS playwright career and in the summer, excuse me, in the spring of 2011 they're like, hey, we want to think outside of the box. Would you be willing to lead the research on this project that we have of exposing what we call these [inaudible] phobia network in America? You know, part of my essays and cometary, they knew that I was kind of exposing these anti Muslim memes and bigots were trumpeting scapegoating and fear-mongering, especially after the 2010 [00:22:00] ground zero mosque controversy that was neither a ground zero nor a mosque.
Speaker 3:And they said, you know, you're a non DC guy, maybe you should lead it. And I said, sure. It sounds like an interesting project. I've never done it before. Why not? And it's small little report that was supposed to be a 20 page expo a I ended up, it was just supposed to take me two months that have taken me six months and my first draft was like 180 pages and center for American progress. Looked at it and they're like, you're crazy. Like they literally looked at it like I've mapped it out right. They're like, you're nuts. We don't believe you. And they did an audit of [00:22:30] it for two months. Like okay, okay, you're right. And then report, it ended up being this hundred and 38 page report investigative report called Fear Inc the roots of the Islamophobia network in Americans. That was published in August, 2011 and you, knock on wood, I'm very proud of it.
Speaker 3:It ends up ended up being a seminal report, kind of a very foundational report. A lot of people still use to this day resource everywhere you had exposed a lot of these players we can name in a second. And a lot of these means that have unfortunately come from the fringe [00:23:00] that have been mainstreamed, especially after the election of Barack Obama. And especially after like, you know, the 2010 guns or moss controversies such as, you know, Sharita as a threat to America. Uh, you know, uh, mosques are Trojan horses. There's no such thing as peaceful Islam. Uh, traditional Islam is radical Islam. If you're a practicing Muslim, you cannot be a loyal American. You know, these fringe means. Uh, we saw, we just saw recently 2012, uh, elections in nearly every single Republican presidential [00:23:30] candidate ran with the Anti Sharia mean for both money and votes.
Speaker 3:We just saw, like last month, governor of Louisiana, Bobby Jindal, he followed the lead of an Islamophobe though we, uh, outed Steve Emerson and said, there's go zones in America. These Shiria infested sounds were Muslims have taken over and they've like, you know, like apparently sprayed their Shiria everywhere and non Muslims are not allowed to come. And you know, he's doubled, you know, he's doubled down on this rhetoric and he knows better, but he's doubling [00:24:00] down on this river because he knows it plays to his base. And you know, President Obama is a Muslim and, and so forth and so forth. So what we did is I mapped it out. Uh, we made it very digestible, connected the dots, traced the funding, and showed the genesis quite clearly the genesis of how a very few interconnected incestuous group of people, very few people were able to create. And then mainstream, uh, these fictitious threats that to marginalized, [00:24:30] uh, American Muslims from America's political civic and social sphere and how it is ultimately dangerous knowledge to America's cultural fabric, but also threatens our national security. And as you, and we've seen example after example and thankfully that has become a foundational resource for not just Americans but also in Europe right now. You see what's happening.
Speaker 2:So I'm very glad about that. I'm talking about the report you're listening to KALX Berkeley 90.7 FM and this is method to the madness. We're interviewing [inaudible] [00:25:00] Ali, UC Berkeley graduate and lawyer, playwright SAS and host of Al Jazeera as social media driven talk show the stream. He joined us via phone bridge from Washington DC to talk about the Muslim American experience in America. And we asked him about what he thinks the biggest challenges are facing Muslim Americans today. I want to put this in proper context. I think American Muslims really look at it.
Speaker 3:Birds [00:25:30] eye view. It's a success story. And like we have tremendous privileges, uh, unlike other minority groups that have gone through the similar hazing. Yes, we have deep, unique problems and you know, this lot of phobia, anti Muslim bigotry, especially the fact that now it's at a global scale, the local becomes a national becomes, you know, the global story with a tweet or a youtube video. But at the same time, you know, we're the most diverse religious community in America. American Muslim women are the most educated women of any religious group, right behind Jewish American women, [00:26:00] uh, as a group where, you know, educated, uh, above average income, uh, you know, quote unquote moderate mainstream, whatever that means. That's good words. Uh, you know, renounce audit volume extremisms so many of us have achieved, if you will, the American dream. I think the problem internally for American Muslims is whether or not we choose to be spectators or participants.
Speaker 3:And what I mean by that is oftentimes, especially with immigrant communities, there was a, don't rock the boat, keep your head down, have a checklist [00:26:30] of success and follow the safe path. Um, and often times we kind of, if you will, have helped this marginal marginalization of American Muslims happen by not investing in storytelling. 90%. It's a American Muslims. And when they did a pull it like 2001, we're either doctors, engineers, or business. So that leaves me about 10, 11% for teachers, activists, politicians, journalists, directors, uh, you know, and so forth. And I think [00:27:00] if you deprive yourself of the opportunity to be a cultural creator, if you deprive yourself of the opportunity to become a participant, if you deprive yourself of becoming a protagonist of not only your own narrative but the American narrative, at the end of the day, you can kind of only blame yourself for being on the margins or being a footnote or being a sidekick or being an antagonist.
Speaker 3:And I think it'd be the, the major struggle for American Muslims is how to not lose hope in, uh, themselves and not to lose hope [00:27:30] in America, especially when they are facing an uphill challenge where it seems that they seem besieged by so many palms. I forget. It's like an avalanche every, every step. Uh, everywhere you go, you want to get out of the muck and then isis they want get out of the muck and all kinds of the Arabian peninsula you want to get out of the muck and some loans radical. And then you're always defensive, right? You're always interrogated and you're always asked to prove that you're a moderate. You're always asked to prove your loyalty. And I think it can be easily exhausting for an American Muslim and it [00:28:00] could easily be defeating. And I think that struggle is to have faith in the best, best aspects of ourselves and the best aspects of this country, of the best aspects of our community members to kind of unite in solidarity over shared values and really invest proactively as storytellers.
Speaker 3:And sometimes that requires bum rushing the show and doing things on your own, right? If cold, cold, mainstream media or mainstream politics does not have you as a protagonist, where are you going to do? Are you [00:28:30] going to drink your chat as a spectator whine and complain? Or are you gonna use your village's privileged to throw down and bum rush the show? And it might take a little bit of time, but at least you move forward. I think that's something that is very pivotal, not only for a sense of identity and only first sense of swagger and only person's confidence, not only first month of wellbeing, the only sense of creating a positive proactive narrative for this generation, future generations, but also think for honoring this anti Muslim bigotry that [00:29:00] it's poisonous for our national security. And I also think it provides a microcosm of what America will have to do if it wants to emerge as the best version of itself as it approaches a minority and majority country, the way America treats us minorities and the way we treat our marginalized communities, it will be the fault line of how we will either emerge or fail.
Speaker 3:I think as a nation, I think that's a big test.
Speaker 2:That was what Jihad Ali on Calyx is method to the madness. Now, 30 [00:29:30] minute talk show every other Friday that explores the innovative spirit of the bay area. Well, John is a UC Berkeley graduate, a lawyer, a playwright, essayist consultants, the U S State Department and host of Al Jazeera America's social media driven talk show the stream. Very proud of the work he's doing to communicate the Muslim American experience in America. If you want to follow more of which odds work, follow him on Twitter with his handle at YJ hot Ali. That's w a j. A. H. A T, a. L. I [00:30:00] on Twitter. That's it for our program today. Thanks for joining and special thanks to my partner in crime, Lisa Key for setting up this interview and making it all happen. With that, we'll turn it back over to the music. Have a great Friday. Everybody.
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