Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we analyze the first season of the hit HBO Max series "Succession." We spend most of this episode getting familiar with each of the main characters and the toxic Roy family dynamics. We explore themes of covert vs overt narcissism, attachment, substance use disorders, personality disorders, and toxic entitlement. We also explore the expert portrayal of ineffective family therapy, as well which behaviors of the adult children stem from child abuse and emotional neglect. We hope you enjoy!
[00:17] Portia Pendleton: Hi, welcome back to another episode of Analyze Scripts. Today we are so excited to finally be talking about succession.
[00:24] Dr. Katrina Furey: Finally. Oh, finally.
[00:25] Portia Pendleton: Succession. Season one, which is on HBO, max, huge show for them, like big time. Their last season is currently being released right now. Every Sunday, I think, right?
[00:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think every Sunday. And we are such journalists that we are watching all four seasons this month. And we will be releasing one episode a week per season, every other week with some movies and other things thrown in. But boy, oh boy, I don't know how I've been sleeping on this show.
[00:56] Portia Pendleton: It's so I know I have had so many people personally and then even on our Instagram page be like, you need to do succession. You need to do succession. And I really will say at first I didn't think I was going to like, me too.
[01:07] Dr. Katrina Furey: The first two to three episodes, I was like, oh, snooze yeah.
[01:11] Portia Pendleton: Feels a little dry. Feels like a business, small political, a.
[01:18] Dr. Katrina Furey: Lot of navy and black and a lot of boring. And it also just left me feeling icky right away. Like, this is capitalism and I don't really need to see this anymore. And I already suffer the consequences of capitalism.
[01:33] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. So I can say we're not going to talk about season two, but now I'm like, I just finished season two and I'm obsessed with this. I really am trying to slowly watch it because it's so good and pick up on all the characters and all the storylines and all of the kind of like real life things. I was thinking kind of automatically in the first couple episodes when I wasn't that into, it was like, okay, in real life, who owns what, right? Like, this is a big conglomerate of a media corporation and you see that different. A couple of people own everything. So we were both kind of saying it reminds us of like Disney and who? Disney. And all of the things that they do. Their Hulu partnerships. Discovery partnerships.
[02:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: ESPN. Yes. Lucasfilms with like Star Wars. How there's the theme parks, the cruise line.
[02:23] Portia Pendleton: Right.
[02:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I kept wondering, is this based on some big time media family?
[02:28] Portia Pendleton: Right.
[02:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: I didn't get a chance to look into that. But Portia, I think you looked up some interesting facts.
[02:33] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. So unsurprisingly. There are about 15 billionaires and six corporations who own most of the US. Media outlets. So the biggest ones are at and T. What Comcast? The Walt Disney Company National Amusements, which includes Viacom, CBS News Corp. And Fox Corporation, which are both owned by the Murdochs. Not the same Murdochs.
[03:01] Dr. Katrina Furey: Who are the Murdochs from that South Carolina documentary? Not those ones, but the other ones. Yeah, it's a toss up.
[03:09] Portia Pendleton: It's a similar name. It's an interesting name. Yeah, so I thought that was interesting. And then Sony and Hearst, I guess they're smaller.
[03:18] Dr. Katrina Furey: Wow. I feel unwell learning that. So much of the media that we see is owned by a handful, two handfuls of people.
[03:33] Portia Pendleton: Yeah.
[03:34] Dr. Katrina Furey: That's kind of scary.
[03:35] Portia Pendleton: Yeah.
[03:35] Dr. Katrina Furey: I'm curious what you thought, Portia, but as a psychiatrist, I was really fascinated by the family dynamics. And I was so thrilled when they showed them doing family therapy at the end, which we'll talk about in a little bit, but just getting a sense of what are these long standing dynamics that are really coming out as we see Logan, the patriarch of the family, maybe retiring, but maybe not. And like, who's going to get the company, right?
[04:05] Portia Pendleton: Right.
[04:06] Dr. Katrina Furey: So Logan has four children. I kept wondering, what is their birth order? Did you figure this out? I think Connor is the oldest, and I wonder if he has a different mom. I think he does because he's kind of more aloof. And then we have the three other children, kendall, Roman and Siobhan. I kept wondering if Roman and Siobhan were twins or like, I think Kendall's second oldest and like the first oldest of his nuclear family. And then Roman and Shiv, I couldn't figure out who's third, who's fourth. Are they twins?
[04:41] Portia Pendleton: I feel like they are probably very close in age, if anything. I got the vibe that Roman was younger, but I think it's just his personality and maybe a defense mechanism that he uses. But, yeah, I think it's definitely like a patriarchy family. Logan, it seems like, came from nothing and kind of started this entire company himself, so has a very different view of the world.
[05:11] Dr. Katrina Furey: Kids do.
[05:11] Portia Pendleton: I mean, in the wealth depiction is extreme. You are only flying private. You have 20 homes, you call it. You don't have to when you water for yourself ever. I mean, it's like that.
[05:25] Dr. Katrina Furey: You're doing well. Real.
[05:27] Portia Pendleton: Yeah.
[05:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: No, this is this crazy rich. And again, probably on par with the people, the families who own these media companies.
[05:34] Portia Pendleton: I think that he still, to a degree, has an awareness of the world that his children do not. That they are kind of silver spoon fed and have really no regard in.
[05:46] Dr. Katrina Furey: A lot of ways for people.
[05:47] Portia Pendleton: I mean, the baseball scene, right?
[05:49] Dr. Katrina Furey: It made me disgust.
[05:53] Portia Pendleton: Me too.
[05:54] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I was like, I don't know if I'm going to like this show.
[05:56] Portia Pendleton: Yes. Because it was early on and I was like, I don't like this.
[05:58] Dr. Katrina Furey: That was disgusting what Roman did with that little boy. And then you see them paying them off, and you see that a lot throughout season one is when they've had bad behavior. They pay people off, get them to sign an NDA. I thought Kendall really hit the nail on the head sort of like midway through season one when he was telling his dad, like, you're so jealous of what you've given your children. I think there's a lot of truth to that. So these are people who are like, uber wealthy. They're in a different stratosphere they all have these insane apartments in New York City.
[06:35] Portia Pendleton: Huge egos.
[06:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: Huge egos.
[06:38] Portia Pendleton: No awareness.
[06:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: No very limited awareness.
[06:40] Portia Pendleton: Even.
[06:40] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, at first I thought Shiv might have some, and then as we got to the end, I was like, no, not her.
[06:46] Portia Pendleton: I feel that way back and forth with everyone. And one of the characters that I don't feel that much like he is just out of this world is Kendall. And I'm wondering if it's because of his substance use issues. I feel like that really humanizes him for me. And maybe whether it's through I don't know if he's had any substance abuse treatment or it sounds like he's been.
[07:11] Dr. Katrina Furey: To rehab a time or two.
[07:12] Portia Pendleton: And even his fellow substance use comrades, it's just something that affects everyone, regardless of your socioeconomic status. So I think I don't know if that gives him just some little extra viewpoint of the world that I don't think anyone else appears to have of his siblings.
[07:33] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, no, probably. I think yeah, you hit the nail in the head. It does humanize him. I was so sad when he relapsed and I was really sad he relapsed with Smirnoff and then went right to math. I was like, oh, wow, it's really ratcheting up very quickly. And that is a good point, Portia, that substance abuse can affect anyone from all walks of life. And actually the rates are higher in licensed professionals compared to the general population, which most people are shocked to find out. That's something I used to tell a lot of people when I'd see them in the Er. And maybe they're a fellow mental health worker or a doctor or an attorney or a social worker or a teacher or physical therapist or what have you, that the rates of substance abuse are higher in people who hold some sort of professional license. So it isn't that more education, more socioeconomic resources necessarily shield you from that. And I think we see a lot of that in teenagers who maybe grow up in really affluent communities with less supervision. Like I'm imagining these four had growing up. I don't know. I just wonder what their attachments were like to anyone. Did they have a nanny or they must have had nanny, something that they felt connected to. We haven't met that person yet.
[08:58] Portia Pendleton: And I don't think I mean, in my opinion, based on me making up their childhood, I feel like they probably didn't have as good as an attachment they could have with a nanny. And maybe it's because nannies were fired regularly or like there was a high turnover because the expectations were so unreasonable. Because I know people who have nannies and opairs come in, have strongly attached childhood, don't turn into kind of how this family is and then other families who have opairs nannies do.
[09:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. And I would imagine that the mom who we don't meet till the end, I kept wondering where's the mom where's the mom?
[09:39] Portia Pendleton: What is she like? Yes.
[09:40] Dr. Katrina Furey: I thought that was an important choice not to show her right. Until the wedding. I bet that's just how she's related to all the kids the whole time.
[09:49] Portia Pendleton: I bet.
[09:50] Dr. Katrina Furey: This is what I'm imagining. Their childhoods. Were they're, like, living in a castle or whatever? Very fancy place in New York City. Dad is working all the time, doesn't really care about them, except as sort of, like, bolstering his own image. And then Mom, I don't think would have worked, but also probably wasn't hands on or invested in them. And so they probably did have nannies. But I would imagine that then mom maybe felt competitive with the nanny and would fire her. Or if the kids did start to grow attached to the nanny and not her, I could see that creating issues and leading to a lot of different caretakers coming in and out, which I don't think is good for the kids. Right. That's my hypothesis about what their upbringing was like. I have no idea if we'll see any more backstory to that or not, but they all certainly are displaying traits, at least of various personality disorders in the cluster B range, from borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, to antisocial personality disorder.
[10:56] Portia Pendleton: Well, I guess who should we start with? Do we want to just maybe, like, quickly we talked a little bit about Kendall. Anything else you want to add? So it seems like he's separated or divorced from his wife.
[11:07] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think they're separating. Yes, you're right.
[11:10] Portia Pendleton: Because they talk about it later at the wedding.
[11:11] Dr. Katrina Furey: So at first I hated him. The first couple of episodes, I just hated him. I thought he was such a douchebag. Like, sorry to use that word, but I think he is in the way. He's so rude and aggressive to all the business people. Maybe that's how business is done. I don't know. I don't do business. He's so rude and gross and vulgar, and he really thought really highly of himself and would get so offended when someone would mention, like, do you want to call your dad? Or should we run this by your dad? Which is, like, the only reason he's in that position.
[11:43] Portia Pendleton: I love when he said back, though, to one of one, do you want to call your dad? Yeah. I was like, that's funny.
[11:50] Dr. Katrina Furey: So at first, I hated him, and then as I saw the dynamic between Kendall and his dad play out, I felt so sad for him. And then those I just got chills thinking of the final scenes after. So they're at the wedding. He's trying to get drugs. He goes for a ride with a waiter or something, and he's the one driving, and he even says, like, it's been a long time since I drove. And the waiter is like and they're on the other side of the other.
[12:18] Portia Pendleton: Side of the road, right?
[12:19] Dr. Katrina Furey: Because they're in, I think, they're in somewhere in England. And the waiter is like, oh, really?
[12:23] Portia Pendleton: Like, why?
[12:24] Dr. Katrina Furey: And he's like, Well, I'm insanely wealthy, so people usually drive me around. And then again, the car accident. The guy dies and he leaves.
[12:32] Portia Pendleton: And he tried to go back twice. So I count yes, because I thought that that was, like, an important moment. He did demonstrate some empathy and compassion and regard for humanity.
[12:48] Dr. Katrina Furey: Shame and regret.
[12:49] Portia Pendleton: Back two times to try to get to him. It appears like it's cold. I mean, this isn't pleasant. It's life or death. And then he kind of comes to realize that he can't get to him and just I mean, then he's in shock. Interesting, because he kind of then immediately shuts down. He walks back. He's just like he gets inside. He takes that bath.
[13:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, my God.
[13:11] Portia Pendleton: Cleans off.
[13:12] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. He has to break in to get inside because he lost his room key. That was just so chilling, that whole portrayal. But I thought it would spot on portrayal of what it must feel like to be in shock and just sort of going through the motions and trying to cover your *** by showing up to the after party and the brunch the next day and all this stuff. I was kind of surprised that the authorities or his dad or whoever was able to piece together that he was there by his room key. I was like, would they really find the room key? Whatever. So they did, right?
[13:48] Portia Pendleton: And why was it his room key? Why wasn't it just, like, a room key to the house? So somebody who was working right at the property had that seems strange that they right.
[13:57] Dr. Katrina Furey: That seems like a detail that realistic.
[13:59] Portia Pendleton: That is.
[14:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: But okay, fine, we'll give it to you. And then the way the dad uses oh, my God. Masterfully.
[14:04] Portia Pendleton: As soon as that happened, and I just assumed that this person was dead, and as he's kind of walking home.
[14:11] Dr. Katrina Furey: I was like, this is going to happen.
[14:13] Portia Pendleton: His dad gets him back under his 100%.
[14:15] Dr. Katrina Furey: So, again, to sort of recap the plot, if it's been a while since you watched season one or if you haven't watched it yet. So his dad, Logan, is the first episode, like, about to announce he's retiring. Kendall is going to take over. And then at the last minute, he's like, I changed my mind.
[14:31] Portia Pendleton: I'm going to stay on.
[14:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: And he really crushes Kendall's dreams.
[14:34] Portia Pendleton: Then he has some medical issues.
[14:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: He has, like, a hemorrhagic stroke, which I thought they portrayed really well and accurately at first. I thought the dad was faking it. I thought he was what we say malingering is like the fancy psychology word for sort of feigning symptoms for secondary gain. I really thought he was faking it at first because all the kids were bickering about who's going to be CEO, who's going to be CEO, and then.
[14:58] Portia Pendleton: Changing the trust for marcia.
[15:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: That was interesting.
[15:01] Portia Pendleton: And they were kind of all trying to fight her, right?
[15:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: And then eventually he gets back to work and, quote unquote, recovers, even though he was not ready purely to keep Kendall from taking the reins, it seems like. So the whole season, you see this push and pull between him and Kendall, and then eventually Kendall tries to hostile takeover. Hostile takeover. This bear hug, all these business words I don't understand, but basically try to use the shareholders to vote them out. They try to do the vote, remember? Oh, my gosh, we'll talk about that in a minute. And then eventually the dad learned about this hostile takeover. It was like, going, okay. And then Kendall's another good example of always getting in your own way, right? Like, he just keeps getting in his own way, getting in his own way. Telling Frank when he shouldn't, like, trusting this person when you shouldn't, like, going out to score drugs the night before the hostile takeover meeting. And then it all gets foiled. And so his dad learns about the fact that he was at the crash site and basically is like, come back and work with me, and I'll take care of it.
[16:08] Portia Pendleton: And he really becomes you just think that he's going to be his dad's right hand man. He does whatever I say. Now he's going to take the fall for this. He's going to do this.
[16:19] Dr. Katrina Furey: And it wasn't even for me, Portia. Like, the fact that he would use that against him, it was the fact that that was the only moment we saw the dad have any type of affection for Kendall, giving him a hug, saying, like, you're my first boy. I love you. And it was all manipulative. There was, like, not an ounce of authenticity there. It was so disgusting to me.
[16:42] Portia Pendleton: So Kendall pairs with, it seems like a college buddy, Stewie, and Stewie is in a private investment firm. And then Kendall tries to get Stewie to kind of buy and help with the board, because I guess Stewie has votes. Again, this is not my all business.
[16:58] Dr. Katrina Furey: Word, like shares and stocks, and I'm all like, I really don't understand. This must be what people feel like when we say medicine and psychology words.
[17:06] Portia Pendleton: Yeah, all the three letter, all the acronyms, acronyms over and over again.
[17:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: We could just use, like, okay, but.
[17:15] Portia Pendleton: Kendall, I think he just adds a really helpful, humanistic flavor to you.
[17:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: You definitely see his humanity. And so I did look up some facts about Jeremy Strong, who's the actor who plays Kendall, because I'd heard his name in the news, like celebrity media news, not like, hard hitting news, I don't think. And I just thought it was interesting that he's the one who is really into method acting. So, like, when he's playing a character, he lives as the character. And if you read a little bit about succession, which I'm trying to avoid. But some of his other castmates say it can be hard to work with.
[17:54] Portia Pendleton: Wow.
[17:54] Dr. Katrina Furey: Because he's always the character and he's married to a psychiatrist, which I thought was really interesting.
[18:01] Portia Pendleton: Love that for him. Yeah.
[18:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I think there were some things on his Wikipedia page or something where either he or she was talking about how it can be hard because he'll have this identity diffusion was the phrase they used. How wild. Right. I thought that was fascinating. And I'm like seeing it, though, in his acting, being so shocked. But can you imagine being his wife and having to live with him, living as Kendall?
[18:29] Portia Pendleton: Kendall is so desperate for connection and intimacy and for his father specifically to validate him. And I think that he though, by doing that, pushes everyone away and becomes.
[18:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: Really isolated and is often, I think, really lonely. I think so, too. And the expense of his children. Right. So that scene, was it Thanksgiving?
[18:53] Portia Pendleton: Yes. It's only a couple of episodes in that was shocking to me. So they're at Thanksgiving, everyone's invited. It seems like pretty uncomfortable.
[19:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: I love that. It was like such a typical uncomfortable family holiday.
[19:07] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. This is the norm. So Tom appears to this be like a first holiday with Shiv because he's like, shocked. He's like, why don't we go around the table and say thanks? Which, again, is like such a normal and Tom regular person thing.
[19:21] Dr. Katrina Furey: Tom's like this, like, good old Midwestern boy who's, like, marrying Shiv. I still get the icks from him right away. One of my first three notes in my notes app as I was watching this was Tom Gross. So I just have this feeling he's going to be a surprise sociopath at the end.
[19:37] Portia Pendleton: We'll see.
[19:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: But yeah, so they're going around and everyone's kind of like they're just so mean to him. They really put down everyone who's not in their family.
[19:47] Portia Pendleton: Right.
[19:48] Dr. Katrina Furey: So gross.
[19:48] Portia Pendleton: Right. This is a brief character, but Logan's brother, Ewan, who is like very anti capitalist, anti politics flavor that Logan is, like anti technology.
[20:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: He lives out in the boonies alone and wants to be left alone, but he's still on the board and so has a vote and shows up at key moments.
[20:11] Portia Pendleton: And it's unclear if he had an early, important role because I think it's like, if he didn't, why does he have, it seems like hundreds of millions of dollars as well. He's very wealthy, has board seats. So I'm wondering, did Logan and Ewan, did they started something and then got out really fast and Logan bought him out and so on? Because Logan maybe yes. I just don't think he would give his brother hundreds of millions for no reason.
[20:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: Let's make a pact here now, Portia, that when this podcast takes off, we won't turn into Logan and Yan. Okay. Pinky promise.
[20:46] Portia Pendleton: Yeah.
[20:47] Dr. Katrina Furey: Or Shiv or any of them.
[20:49] Portia Pendleton: Roman any of them. Greg maybe.
[20:52] Dr. Katrina Furey: But yeah, I love Greg. We'll get to him in a second. He's like the best. But yeah.
[20:56] Portia Pendleton: So back to Thanksgiving.
[20:57] Dr. Katrina Furey: So, again, this is where Logan so he has like a hemorrhagic stroke. Like, a lot of people die from this. Very serious again, I loved the scenes of them, like, in the hospital. You want the best care, dictating care.
[21:09] Portia Pendleton: Where we need to go.
[21:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: I have this neurologist on the phone.
[21:13] Portia Pendleton: Totally.
[21:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, my God. It totally happened.
[21:15] Portia Pendleton: They're in a special wing.
[21:17] Dr. Katrina Furey: They have a special boardroom. This happens. But anyway, so then we see Logan coming back to work mostly to screw Kendall.
[21:25] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. He pees in the office. He doesn't know where he is a couple of times.
[21:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: There's a couple of things where with stuff like that, like the peeing in the office when he grabs Siobhan's hand when she goes in to see him and moves it toward his crotch.
[21:36] Portia Pendleton: Oh, yeah.
[21:37] Dr. Katrina Furey: Some parts where you're like, are you confused and delirious or is this deliberate? I thought the thing was Siobhan was confusion and delirium, but the peeing in Kendall's office, I was not sure.
[21:47] Portia Pendleton: I feel like that was deliberate because it was Kendall's. Okay.
[21:51] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, I feel like that was deliberate, but he knew he could get a pass, maybe. I don't know. It seemed like if it had been anyone else's office, I might think it's more just confusion, but I think he just had a way of building Kendall up to shut him down at the last moment. I think he really enjoyed that, which gross me. But then getting back to Thanksgiving, so they're playing this game where they pass around this, like, cranberry sauce or something.
[22:22] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. And I think it's like you just have to remember going to the market. Right. So I'm going to the market for a can of beans and you say, I'm going to the market for a can of beans and turkey. And then I have to say both.
[22:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: Of those, like one of those games used to play at camp. I also loved Sidebar, that they kept bringing him the cranberry sauce in the camp. Like, everyone knew he loved that. It's just so weird. You would think that would humanize him, but no, it doesn't. And then the little boy who this was Kendall's son, right. Who had a hard time transitioning in. And so I felt like the mom was doing a good job, like sitting with him, trying to make him feel comfortable to bring him in. And then Logan was getting so irate over it. Logan, definitely. I think parents, like, you say, what I yeah.
[23:07] Portia Pendleton: With an iron.
[23:08] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, you do what I say no matter what.
[23:10] Portia Pendleton: Authoritarian.
[23:12] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes, authoritarian, for sure. And I think Kendall's maybe trying to do it differently, but this is definitely where you see the pull. And then the little boy tells Logan, like, you're doing it wrong or you're.
[23:24] Portia Pendleton: Getting it wrong and he lost. You lost.
[23:26] Dr. Katrina Furey: And he hits him in the face with that can really quick, really hard. I was shocked.
[23:33] Portia Pendleton: Yeah.
[23:33] Dr. Katrina Furey: I felt so uncomfortable.
[23:35] Portia Pendleton: I think I audibly gasped. Me too. Because it was so out of left field. And I think you didn't know in that moment specifically, is this a lingering from the upper stroke or has he done this before? Right?
[23:51] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I think he's done it before.
[23:52] Portia Pendleton: But it was horrible.
[23:54] Dr. Katrina Furey: It was horrific to watch. Just awful. I feel so bad for that little boy. But then, even then, Kendall still doesn't fully stand up for his kids. I don't know, he's still so torn.
[24:07] Portia Pendleton: It's like he is probably to the best.
[24:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: I keep wondering, why don't they all just take their bazillions of dollars and get out of there?
[24:21] Portia Pendleton: I don't know if it's all like a majority is tied up in the company or the company. Whereas in like, if Logan wanted to say, you're all cut off, like, he could you know what I mean? Maybe they would have nothing. Which is just such also, like a power move. Right?
[24:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think you're totally right.
[24:41] Portia Pendleton: So, anyway, I think Kendall I enjoyed his storyline throughout the show. I'm telling sad, but I think it helped me get into the show for sure.
[24:52] Dr. Katrina Furey: I'm really sad. He relapsed. And then when Logan would want Greg, who's like this cousin who came out of nowhere. So I loved at the beginning episodes when Greg is like the mascot at.
[25:06] Portia Pendleton: The theme park, he throws up his eyes.
[25:09] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. And he's like, talking to his mom on the phone. Like, I didn't smoke.
[25:13] Portia Pendleton: I was just in the car. It just smelled. I don't know.
[25:17] Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't know if the contact hot. I can't tell you how many times Portia I would work in the Er and people would come in high as kites and we would say their urine toxicology screen is lighting up like a Christmas tree, which means everything's positive. And I literally would hear this all the time, but I didn't do it. Just someone in the car. And it's like, that's not how it works. We all know that's not how it works.
[25:41] Portia Pendleton: This isn't program where we did in home family therapy for teens with primary substance use. And sometimes I'm like, why was I doing this? Just like, it's a funny part of the job. So I would bring in the little bottle or the little container for them to do, like, a urine sample, and they would go into the bathroom. And then I'm thinking, too, they'd like, Hand it to me. This isn't like a clinical setting where it's like, we have gloves, put it.
[26:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: In that little shelf, and then you.
[26:13] Portia Pendleton: Have gloves, a nurse or someone else, then, who's running the test is like putting it in the bath, really. So then I'd, like, wash my hands and obviously piles of hand sanitizer everywhere. And I remember it just saying multiple pretty significant substances. It was not marijuana. It was very and them just denying it.
[26:37] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I'm like, but it says here denial is very strong in substance use disorders. It's the primary defense in just teen life. Right?
[26:48] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Why was it there a picture of you there? Well, that's not me, but your face.
[26:55] Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't know what to tell you. It is.
[26:57] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. So Greg is I love him. I think he's like the comic relief because he's just, like, kind of walking around.
[27:06] Dr. Katrina Furey: This cousin Greg comes out of nowhere somehow. The sister, I think, is Logan's sister, maybe, or no, the sister is Ewen's daughter. That's how it is. There's some family rift there, which I wonder if we'll learn more about later on. But he's so funny. He's like, mom? What's? Me? I have no money. Bail me out. She's like, no, I'm done. Go see your uncle and he'll give you a job or something. And he shows up right before Logan has this stroke and he's, like, trying to get a job.
[27:39] Portia Pendleton: I like him.
[27:41] Dr. Katrina Furey: I also think he's smart. So I was really happy for him when Tom, who's Shiv's now husband, like the good old boy from the Midwest who I don't think is all that good of a boy, asked Greg to destroy all those documents that would basically implicate the company and some kind of awful cover up through the years. And Greg was smart enough to keep some. I was like, yes, Greg.
[28:07] Portia Pendleton: Greg.
[28:08] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I wonder I'm betting that'll come out in later seasons. And you can see how Greg is kind of doofy as he comes across, does have that smart side to him. And Logan picks that up at some points and is like, yeah, did you.
[28:24] Portia Pendleton: See or obviously you did because he watched it when they went to the restaurant. So Tom and Greg and he's like, introducing them to fine dining.
[28:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: Greg was like, oh, I want to go to California Pizza Kitchen. And I was like, I loved that place in med school. Yeah. But then Tom is like, oh, California.
[28:44] Portia Pendleton: But Greg has already had dinner with Ewan and a lot because Ewan is like, you got to eat it all. There's somebody so Greg has this huge noodle dish and then goes to this fine dining, which I will say at fine dining, when you are doing a tasting menu, it is really small and.
[29:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: It'S supposed to be like a bite of each. Like, maybe you could get away with that.
[29:03] Portia Pendleton: But still he seems really full, like.
[29:04] Dr. Katrina Furey: A sparrow or something. And they had to cover themselves because it's, like, illegal. And I was like, but did they really? Or was Tom doing that? I was like, oh, yeah, you have.
[29:16] Portia Pendleton: To do this because it's this rare bird.
[29:17] Dr. Katrina Furey: But then everyone else around the restaurant can see they're not, like, in a back room.
[29:22] Portia Pendleton: You should look that up.
[29:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: Or if you're listening and, you know, send us a DM. Yeah, but that's where I think Tom really enjoys getting one over on Greg. Like, right away. You see that when he like, they're at that weird baseball thing, remember, and and I wonder, like, is he dressed with Shiv to, like, marry into this family? Like, I wouldn't be surprised. And then we have shiv.
[29:45] Portia Pendleton: Yeah.
[29:46] Dr. Katrina Furey: So beautiful. Redhead.
[29:47] Portia Pendleton: Interesting. I don't know what to think of her.
[29:50] Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't know how to place her.
[29:51] Portia Pendleton: Right.
[29:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: Also, she's always in a pantsuit, and I just keep thinking, like, aren't you so uncomfortable all day wearing a pantsuit?
[29:59] Portia Pendleton: But you know what?
[30:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: They're probably the most tailored that's true. Perfect fit you've ever silk or, like, whatever fancy.
[30:06] Portia Pendleton: Not tight around the waist. I think I'm just like, can someone do that for me?
[30:12] Dr. Katrina Furey: But they're all in suits all the time, and I'm just like, don't you just want to put on a T shirt? But they don't.
[30:18] Portia Pendleton: Yeah, even when so I think I don't know why I'm just thinking of Roman here, but he often to me appears the most dressed down, and he's in pants and rolled dress leaves, but he looks the most relaxed versus, like, a full suit. Not in sleeves. Right.
[30:33] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, Kendall always has, like, a new dry clean suit every day. Rowan's, like, in a suit, but it's rolled up. He's doing, like, working out in his office. Remember when he masturbated in the beginning when he was made COO, and he's, like, in his office and he masturbates, like, all over the window and barely cleans it up because he knows someone else will? That's so gross.
[30:55] Portia Pendleton: He's a strange cat.
[30:58] Dr. Katrina Furey: Well, that's, like, a really polite way of saying it.
[31:01] Portia Pendleton: Portray I don't know where to place him.
[31:05] Dr. Katrina Furey: Let's go back to Shiv. Let's go back to Shiv. I know we're, like, jumping all around, but it's hard not to.
[31:09] Portia Pendleton: So Shiv I don't know what to place, like, specifically, way more than Roman. I just feel like she she was a surprise. I like her. I don't like her. I like her. I don't like her. She does something that I'm like, and she does something that makes me feel bad.
[31:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: Until episode, like, seven, probably, or eight, I was like, okay, she's the only quote unquote normal one. Or she's, like the only one with a whiff of a moral compass, wanting to go into politics and seemingly to root for the guy who's fighting for the common man, wanting to maybe break away from the family in that way, but feels like she can't fully probably like you're saying because she might get cut off or something. She's with Tom, who's not, like, a ******, fancy guy, like, sort of a normal guy. So you're thinking, okay, maybe she's, like, the most well adjusted, but then we see. Again, I think even her being with Tom is, like, fueling her narcissistic ego. Like, look, I'm such a good person. I'm with this normal guy.
[32:07] Portia Pendleton: I have a stable relationship per her. Right. I'm trying to think of the guy's name that she is very flirty with and also, like, masturbates with. He works for Gill.
[32:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. Really attractive, whatever his name is. It seemed like they'd had a fling or something in the yeah, they were.
[32:30] Portia Pendleton: Like, past coworkers, FBI. Right.
[32:33] Dr. Katrina Furey: And then now she's engaged. I think he's engaged, and they're working together under this campaign for Gil, and they're really toeing the line, and then they cross it, and it keeps happening. Even at her wedding. He's, like, grabbing her and all this stuff. And it was really sad when Greg tried to bring it to Tom's attention. You could tell Tom just, like, didn't want to hear it.
[32:52] Portia Pendleton: And when I was really sad for Tom, when she kind of dropped the bomb at the wedding night that she wanted, like, an open marriage after the.
[33:02] Dr. Katrina Furey: Wedding, like, at the reception, they're up in the room, and he's like, I wish you would have told me that before. And when Tom was like, but I do love you.
[33:13] Portia Pendleton: I know. And I don't want that. Right. And then he kind of agrees because.
[33:17] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think he feels like he has no choice.
[33:19] Portia Pendleton: What guy maybe and this is being a little bit, like, stereotypical. Right. Like, he's the guy not wanting an open relationship. Right. What guy wouldn't want that at a bachelor party?
[33:30] Dr. Katrina Furey: He felt like he had to do something, but then he was, like, calling her, like, okay, is this okay? Is this not okay? And then Roman brings the girl.
[33:37] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. She doesn't know how to have a stable, secure relationship, an authentic relationship.
[33:45] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. People are objects, I think, to her, which we often see with narcissism. But I think she maintains this air of morality and plays the martyr or the victim a lot of the time.
[34:01] Portia Pendleton: And I think, as a whole, I think what's interesting to remember is you almost can't not be a narcissist in this family to survive. Right. You have to be, I think, sometimes, right. Genes versus our environment. It's like this is a norm in this family. And also, I think, to a degree, like, at this level of wealth, maybe. Yes.
[34:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: And also, I think sociopathy goes right along with that. At that level of wealth and power, you've screwed people over. There's no way around it. And this show maybe we won't get to fully talk about it today, but I think you see the difference between overt and covert narcissism depicted really nicely. I think Shiv is more of a covert narcissist. And also, I think we often think of narcissists as being, like, the person taking up all the air in the room, really gregarious and outgoing, talking about themselves all the time, really charming. But a lot of times, even when they're more of a covert kind of flavor and they're more passive and things like that, the real inner wound is just this intense feeling of insecurity and almost like nothingness unless you're able to put someone else down to keep yourself up. And I feel like Shiv is really demonstrating that even with this guy who we can't remember his name and Tom kind of playing them off each other to sort of feel wanted by a man, and she probably doesn't feel wanted by her dad. So now that her mom and my.
[35:31] Portia Pendleton: Tom isn't enough to fill that void because she needs to do some inner child work, if that's possible. But she needs it to get it from even other people.
[35:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: She can't tolerate it.
[35:43] Portia Pendleton: And this is like a new marriage, relatively new relationship. Maybe they've been dating for years, but you're not in your 10th year where you're trying to spice things up and.
[35:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: You'Re like, hey, let's try it.
[35:54] Portia Pendleton: This it just seems so strange. And when she tells it's bizarre. It seems like maybe she's freaked out that she's like, locked in and she's like, and we're going to have an open marriage and that's fine. What do you mean? That's weird, right? We have this working partnership and we.
[36:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Just maybe will sleep with others and.
[36:11] Portia Pendleton: He'S like, she's manipulating gaslighting him to think it's normal.
[36:15] Dr. Katrina Furey: Very different from the polyamory we saw depicted in you. Season three was Sherry and Carrie, which had some like, boundaries and forethought and openness and dialogue. God, I miss Sherry and Carrie right about now.
[36:37] Portia Pendleton: So let's talk about Roman.
[36:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, my God, we need a whole bonus episode for Roman.
[36:42] Portia Pendleton: Roman to me is so projective, so defensive, so provocative that it's so obvious that he's so wounded and he displays.
[36:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: Being an abuse victim so well. Like, when they're at that vote and he's like trying to put his hand up and the dad says something, you just see him flinch. Like those flinches, the downcast eyes, like being so scared around his dad. Really giving me chill. Spot on depiction of a child who's been abused by this parent and is now around him a lot and tries to give off this go with the flow, like whatever persona, but totally is terrified all the time. Yeah, a lot of acting out, like, outwardly instead of the substance use, which you kind of think of as like acting out inwardly.
[37:31] Portia Pendleton: And I could see him as a child being awkward, quirky. Maybe he has ADHD. He does have ADHD.
[37:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: I really do.
[37:40] Portia Pendleton: Punished relentlessly for it. Like, sit down. No, maybe getting hit versus like, I feel like could maybe be quiet more. Tolerate being quiet more. Shiv can tolerate more, but I don't think Roman Cane and I feel like that to me, maybe he seems so much more like abused and different.
[37:58] Dr. Katrina Furey: He does, doesn't he? And then the whole thing about the dog cage that came out.
[38:02] Portia Pendleton: Do you remember that? Remind me.
[38:04] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh my God. Because it's awful. So at the bachelor party for Tom, somehow it comes out that a game, quote, unquote, they used to play as kids was Kendall would lock Roman in a dog crate and feed him out of, like, a doggie dish. And Roman has held onto this forever. And I think that's probably part of the deep seated resentment competitiveness they have.
[38:32] Portia Pendleton: It's just terrible detail.
[38:34] Dr. Katrina Furey: And then at the bachelor party, kendall's going around and even ask Connor, yeah, he enjoyed that game, right? It was a game, right? Like, Kendall can't believe that he was participating in something that wasn't being enjoyable for him. And then Connor says, Well, dad would make you do it. He would watch. That's probably why you blocked it out, because that is so dark, but totally tracks, doesn't it? And again, that's why I think Kendall's older than Roman, I think is and Shiv's a girl.
[39:08] Portia Pendleton: She's still getting the same flavor. She's still in the same family. But I think there is a tiny thread that's like the size of Vestrand of hair difference for that, where she's still like a daughter versus a son. Yes.
[39:21] Dr. Katrina Furey: He doesn't feel logan, I don't think, feels as competitive with her because she's a girl. He probably also is very misogynistic and so doesn't think much of girls, so he doesn't think she can really go toes with him. But, yeah, Roman, I go back and forth between vomiting on the TV when he's on screen because his behavior is so atrocious and then feeling so sad for him. So sad. And I do think he has ADHD and probably borderline personality disorder, as he said. And why wouldn't he? Yeah, why wouldn't he?
[40:01] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. I'm really interested, excited, nervous to see where his storyline goes throughout the show.
[40:12] Dr. Katrina Furey: He's just always saying the most provocative, uncomfortable things. And I think that's because that's how he feels inside all the time.
[40:20] Portia Pendleton: There was some really small sprinkle of info that we got about his sex life in season one with the first.
[40:29] Dr. Katrina Furey: Girlfriend who he broke up with, because I don't think they had sex.
[40:33] Portia Pendleton: Right. And so she was like, Why don't we this isn't even a real relationship, or something like that. We're not even breaking up because we never were even together. We would never have sex. So I'm curious about his impotence.
[40:47] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. I think a lot of these men feel really impotent around their dad. Logan and in that way, it's, like, really concrete. So that is an interesting detail that's when he brings the girl that Tom hooked up oh, yeah. And again, just like the detail that she gave him a ******* and then.
[41:06] Portia Pendleton: She redistributed his body fluid to him.
[41:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: And he swallowed it.
[41:11] Portia Pendleton: So it was not cheating because it stayed in his body.
[41:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: And he kept trying to be like, what? It's a thing.
[41:18] Portia Pendleton: It's a thing. Everyone was like, that's.
[41:21] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, really not a thing.
[41:23] Portia Pendleton: Strange for that to occur, I would say. And this is not a judgment on people who practice this, but I feel like it's more strange to have the exchange of fluids that way than the actual *******.
[41:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right?
[41:39] Portia Pendleton: At the party. It was a butcher party. I am personally not pleased by that behavior, but seems like that to me was like, what? Whoa.
[41:49] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I also could imagine him being shocked. Like, maybe she came in for a kiss. And then he was like, oh, yeah.
[41:54] Portia Pendleton: What do I do now?
[41:56] Dr. Katrina Furey: But I just loved when he was trying to be like it was a thing. It's a thing, guys.
[42:01] Portia Pendleton: So then we have briefly we have Connor's, the older brother. He's like not seemingly involved. Shares.
[42:08] Dr. Katrina Furey: I thought he was going to be like the most well adjusted one until he's like, I'm going to run for president.
[42:15] Portia Pendleton: Pretty delusional.
[42:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: And that relationship with Willa, I'm really curious porsche to hear your thoughts about.
[42:22] Portia Pendleton: I just feel like it's not surprising at all. Like he's paying this woman to have a relationship with him. And it's so like and everyone know.
[42:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: It takes a while before you realize that she is a sex worker.
[42:39] Portia Pendleton: And she's a playwright.
[42:40] Dr. Katrina Furey: And a playwright. Because they were always like, oh, why is Willa here? Oh, no, Willa's here again. And I was like, what's wrong with Willa? Is she like a toxic ex? Or why are they upset? And then it comes out. And then you're like and then he's like, yeah, I'll pay for you to your playwright.
[43:00] Portia Pendleton: He wants more from her thinking.
[43:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: I mean, she's taking him up on it, but only because he's like footing the bill. He's paying for it. So again, here again, it's like all four of these children inability to have a secure, authentic relationship, not only with a spouse or a romantic partner, but even with children, which so far we only see with Kendall, but also, like their friends. They don't really have any real friends. No, it's either like they get something.
[43:31] Portia Pendleton: Out of the old school. People who seems like who have been around for a long time. We have like Jerry, I think they're like attorney, like their in house legal counsel. And then Frank, who seems really close with Logan, who is treated poorly and then brought back in and then tries to take over with Kendall.
[43:50] Dr. Katrina Furey: I mean, it's just like, yeah, you can't keep where's the alliance here and again with Frank. It's like, why do you keep coming back? It's like all these people come back to Logan. I think because he has all the power portia we can't wrap up before we talk about the family.
[44:08] Portia Pendleton: Therapy. Therapy such a power move. And so they only did it for optics. So there'd be a family photo, which doesn't materialize. Kendall is off the deep end doing meth at a meth house. That Roman then picks him up. The therapist dies, headfirst into the pool.
[44:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: This therapist is the actor who played Nikki in that show. This is us. I don't know if you watch that.
[44:31] Portia Pendleton: No.
[44:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: Such a good show. Very different from this. But I was like, oh, it's that guy. So he's the therapist. Always weird to, like, fly your therapist to you, but I'm sure rich people do this. And then they're having this quote, unquote, family therapy. I liked how the kids didn't just participate in the way their dad wanted them to. It was such bullshit.
[44:54] Portia Pendleton: And they finally I think they took a break and then they never came back. So right before the break, Shiv said something like, well, this is bullshit, right? So I'm not going to participate. Right?
[45:05] Dr. Katrina Furey: And so I wrote down a couple of key quotes from that that I loved. I think maybe the therapist starts off with this, or maybe there's a toast at, like, a breakfast or something. But they say they **** you up, your mom and dad. They do not mean to, but they do. They fill you up with faults they had and add a little extra too.
[45:23] Portia Pendleton: That's great. What a limerick. Who says that?
[45:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: I forget, I thought it was the therapist. Maybe I'm pretty sure it was to open the session and be a little funny or something.
[45:36] Portia Pendleton: Maybe I should say that.
[45:37] Dr. Katrina Furey: And then the dad like just saying his party line. Such a narcissistic thing to do. And again, we keep going back to our episodes on you, but it's just such a good show. When we were talking about if the Quinn family went to therapy, what would it have been like? I feel like it would have been like this, except maybe the dad wouldn't have showed up. The only reason Logan showed up was to get the photo to boost his PR image and the stock price. But then the dad's just saying something like, everything I've ever done is for my children and I love them.
[46:09] Portia Pendleton: That's it. That's like as warm as it gets.
[46:11] Dr. Katrina Furey: There's nothing else. And I wrote down the therapist is like, well, kids or whoever, what do you think about that? And I think Shiv said, I hear it. And then I think Roman said big words.
[46:22] Portia Pendleton: Yeah, the extent of their reaction.
[46:25] Dr. Katrina Furey: But I loved that they just didn't play the role that they knew he wanted them to. And then the therapist, like, dives into the pool and busts teeth out and you're like, what? Family therapist is like, swimming around. It's just wild.
[46:40] Portia Pendleton: And Logan is like, almost rightfully so.
[46:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, what the f like, what? This just exploded in his face. Oh, my God. So I think that's a great depiction of how family therapy shouldn't be, right? It shouldn't be like that, but probably.
[47:00] Portia Pendleton: Can go to therapy and like, totally bullshit. You often see as a therapist, these dynamics play out so clear as day, right? Like the parent maybe, who just repeats the same thing over and over again, or who's playing the victim. And then you see a kid who almost like, sadly is really trying. And then the other kids who have just which totally checked out Shiv and Roman seem to like they're just like, I'm not going to say I'm not going to throw the stone at myself. I'm not going to throw myself under the bus here.
[47:33] Dr. Katrina Furey: But then so you need to have a therapist who's really in it for the right reason to be able to I think you also would have to navigate and understand is this even a safe space? Absolutely. Stop it. The ethical thing would have been like, we're not going to continue. I'm going to leave because it's not safe. It's clearly an abusive dynamic. They're not safe to be open. And you're just, like, enabling this awful abusive behavior. Oh, man.
[48:05] Portia Pendleton: So stay tuned for season two coming.
[48:08] Dr. Katrina Furey: Up in two weeks.
[48:08] Portia Pendleton: Yeah, we're excited. We've been diving into the content like crazy, and it's so good. I just can't stop watching.
[48:15] Dr. Katrina Furey: I love shows like this.
[48:17] Portia Pendleton: But like, always make sure that you are following us on Instagram and TikTok at Analyze Scripts podcast on TikTok and then at Analyze Scripts on Instagram. And we will have some really exciting guests over the next couple of months as well, so stay tuned.
[48:33] Dr. Katrina Furey: And some light hearted summer movies coming your way too, to sort of break up the sociopathy.
[48:38] Portia Pendleton: Well, you never know.
[48:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: Well, yeah, that is true. Surprising when you find these people sometimes. All right, see you next Monday.
[48:47] Portia Pendleton: Bye bye.
[48:54] Dr. Katrina Furey: This podcast and its contents are a copyright of analyzed scripts. All rights reserved. Any redistribution or reproduction of part or all of the contents in any form is prohibited. Unless you want to share it with your friends and rate review and subscribe, that's fine. All stories and characters discussed are fictional in nature. No identification with actual persons, living or deceased places, buildings, or products is intended or should be inferred. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. The podcast and its contents do not constitute professional mental health or medical advice. Listeners might consider consulting a mental health provider if they need assistance with any mental health problems or concerns. As always, please call 911 or go directly to your nearest emergency room for any psychiatric emergencies. Thanks for listening and see you next time.
[49:59] Portia Pendleton: Our channel.
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