The vast majority of humanity experiences war as a spectator — which is excellent. The distance from the reality of noise and danger and hurt and debris allows for passionate opinions on right and wrong, disgust and despair. But for those living and experiencing the harsh reality, whether as a combatant at the front or an endangered civilian behind the lines, war is ghastly. Being shelled and bombed is not the same as watching it on a screen, however horrifying we may find it; and shelling and bombing civilians is never right; ever.
Ukraine is now in its fourth year of war, and while Trump promised to end it in anything from a day to a hundred days, his overtures and partially to Russia has produced only ever more intensive attacks against civilians in Ukraine, with the largest waves yet of drones and ballistic missiles aimed at cities, including Kyiv, over successive nights. Nataliya Gumenyuk is well versed in the duality of spectator and participant of war: a foreign correspondent for many Ukrainian and international outlets before the full scale invasion, she visited war zones and conflict areas repeatedly. But as of February 2022 she shifted to explaining the war to both external and Ukrainian audiences through the Public Interest Journalism Lab, as well as documenting human rights breaches and war crimes for the Reckoning Project.
In a deep and passionate discussion with Ilana Bet-El, Nataliya brings a sense of the reality of being attacked while also explaining the importance of documenting the crimes of war as well as the necessity of EU membership to Ukraine, in order to anchor it in the west officially. And she also presents a vision for the end of the war, unfortunately without a date.
This episode was recorded on 28 May 2025
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Production: Florence Ferrando
Music: Let Good Times Roll, RA - License code: ZXIIIJUU2ISPZIJT
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