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Brilliant South African Jay Naidoo joined me to pivot from diagnosing South Africa's problems to search for solutions. In this wonderfully energetic and energising conversation, we tackled a range of issues from how to build cross-class solidarity, how to bypass political weaknesses that won't disappear soon, and much more. The emphasis was on being future-oriented and avoiding fatalism and chronic despair. 

Join the search for pathways to a more just South Africa by listening to how the conversation with Jay played out!