Danny (00:03.037)
All right, Rob Han, welcome to the Highway 62 podcast. Thanks so much for taking some time out. How are you today?

Rob (00:10.414)
Great, thanks Danny and thanks for having me on.

Danny (00:13.853)
My pleasure. I'm a big fan of your work. I actually purchased one of your photographs from Very Very over the Christmas season. So I think I showed that in that Instagram reel, but it's just right up my alley. And so before we get real deep into what you're doing with photography now, give us a little bit of your background. I know you've wore a lot of hats.

Rob (00:22.569)
you did? cool.

Rob (00:27.694)
Mm -hmm.

Rob (00:43.118)
yeah, yeah. So I was born in England, grew up on a farm very close to Stonehenge in the south of England. yeah, I left school at 16. I'd done tons and tons of jobs. You know, I was a firefighter, like every restaurant job. I was a bike messenger. I've been a, I've been like a, a doorman bouncer. I was,

Danny (01:00.765)
Ha ha ha.

Rob (01:12.045)
I was a model, which that started when I was already 30 years old. And I did that for about 10 years. But during that period, early on, actually, I was kind of wondering what I could do next. And I was in that world, you know, surrounded by photographers. And I'd also always kind of had an opinion on, I like looking at photographs and kind of developed a taste.

Danny (01:17.502)
wow.

Rob (01:41.132)
before I even bought a camera and I bought a camera thinking, well, maybe I could be a photographer, you know, and just sort of just started shooting, shooting friends and sort of went from there.

Danny (01:54.772)
So, and I was reading a little bit in your bio. So when you first started doing photography, you were doing like portrait photography, is that correct?

Rob (02:04.587)
Yeah, I was. I, you know, initially because I was in that world, I thought I might kind of do fashion or, but, but then I went to see this big show of Irving Penn that originally was at MoMA in New York. And, but I actually saw it in London and it was just fantastic. You know, I bought the catalog and I just was fascinated by all the portraits that he'd done.

And not only were they wonderful pictures, but he'd met all of those people. He spent time with them. And I thought, well, that would be a cool thing to do, you know? And he photographed everyone you could ever think of. And they were beautiful pictures. And so, you know, I kind of went in that direction. I was already, you know, I'd been in that kind of fashion world for a while. And initially it was, you know, it was exciting and it was fun.

Danny (02:58.657)
Yeah.

Rob (03:03.69)
but I was getting a little tired of it. And the whole portrait thing seemed like it might be more interesting to me. So that's what I pursued. And after several years of just shooting friends and getting my act together, then I started showing my work to magazine editors, this sort of thing. And I got my first breaks in music.

Danny (03:08.993)
Yeah.

Danny (03:13.825)
Gotcha.

Rob (03:32.937)
In England, there used to be at least this weekly rock paper called NME, the New Musical Express. And when I was growing up, I used to get that, you know, it used to get delivered to the farm like a day late. And I would read every inch of it. And I was just fascinated by that. And so it was cool to actually start shooting for them. And I would shoot, you know, three or four things a week.

Danny (03:40.931)
Yep. Sure. Yeah.

Danny (03:48.867)
Ha ha!

Rob (04:02.729)
for them, a lot of portraits, band pictures. I also had to do live stuff, which wasn't really my thing, but it was fun to go to festivals and that kind of thing. So that was where I really got my breaks. And then later on through that, I started shooting stuff for record companies. And then I started getting work for other kinds of magazines. And I did quite a bit for...

Danny (04:11.876)
Mm -hmm.

Rob (04:30.248)
like national newspapers, like Sunday supplements, you know, shooting, doing portraits of all kinds of people. You know, mostly in the arts, directors, writers, actors, musicians, that kind of thing. Yeah.

Danny (04:36.485)
Yeah.

Danny (04:41.669)
Mm -hmm.

Very cool. So I'm sure you met a lot of interesting people doing that.

Rob (04:49.831)
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, you know, usually for a very short period, you know, but it was still, it was still interesting. It was still real interesting to be in a room with them. Yeah.

Danny (04:55.461)
Right, right.

Danny (04:59.718)
Yeah, yeah. How did you get interested in make that shift into these, you know, the landscape road trip type photography that you do now?

Rob (05:11.302)
Yeah, well, I, you know, I was kind of, so all that period, I was shooting stuff and it was all work. It was all commissioned work for other people. And I was sort of aware, I really wanted to do something for myself, something like a personal project. And I thought that would be a way of kind of advancing things. But I really couldn't think.

what I wanted to do. And I was living in London at the time and nothing was really exciting me. And then one night I was at home watching the TV and there was a show called This is Modern Art. And it was this kind of thing telling the lay person about modern art, you know. And this guy was out in, he went out to Marfa, Texas.

I'm talking about Donald Judd, who is this kind of minimalist sculptor who relocated there from he was in New York, he went out there, bought up an old, with some help, I think, bought up an old military airfield to show his work, you know, in the hangars and the buildings, his work and his friends work, and gradually bought other places within the town, this little tiny West Texas town that was kind of, I guess,

Danny (06:13.287)
Okay.

Rob (06:37.864)
you know, maybe kind of going nowhere and turned it into this real center for art. And it's kind of a hip, arty place these days. Anyway, so this guy who was presenting the show, he was in a, like a open top car driving towards Martha, this big wide open landscape, you know, and it looked, so I'm at home.

in England and the rain's beating on the window and it's the winter time and I see these big open blue skies and I'm like, wow, I want to go there. And so I had spent some time in America before, so I sort of had an interest in it, but I thought it would be great to take a big road trip and take pictures along the way.

Danny (07:07.752)
Hahaha!

Danny (07:13.993)
Yeah, that'll do it.

Rob (07:33.448)
And so that's what I did. I flew to LA and I drove down to Marfa and back. I had rented a car for a couple of weeks. And that was the start of that. And that was, I wasn't really sure what I'd be doing, but I've really got into it and I've been doing it ever since. And that was like, it was October 2001, actually.

Danny (07:56.81)
okay, so you've been, yeah, but you've been doing it a long time then, huh?

Rob (08:00.04)
Yeah, yeah, I have.

Danny (08:02.059)
What is it about the landscape and the subject matter in this American West that you find so appealing to photograph?

Rob (08:11.625)
Well, first of all, I guess there's, you know, I was coming at it with a European romantic idea of all that stuff. You know, I've been for years and years, I've been listening to music, reading books, you know, I got excited by Carowaks on the Road and movies, you know. A big movie for me was Paris, Texas.

Danny (08:20.514)
Yeah.

Danny (08:34.379)
Mm -hmm.

Rob (08:41.257)
that I saw in the cinema in like 84. And that really struck me. And I keep going back to that one actually. And so I had this kind of romantic idea of the whole thing. And then when it comes to photography, I've found it really suited me because I like a lot of space and I could sort of get that feeling of wide open spaces and...

Danny (08:49.036)
Yeah, that's a great movie.

Rob (09:11.081)
and just finding something within that space. And I don't know, there's something that's really attractive to me about that. You know, I spend a lot of time in New York now, and I know people that walk around every day with cameras shooting in New York, and I've tried it, but it's not for me. It's very busy, it's complicated, and it's just not my thing. You know, I guess I'm a kind of a minimalist, you know. And...

Danny (09:25.708)
Mm -hmm.

Danny (09:36.461)
Gotcha. Go ahead. Okay. You know, one of the things I was thinking about is, so you're, you know, you're out there, maybe you find a old building or cool signs or whatever the subject matter is that you're going to take that picture. When you're framing that shot, I was kind of interested into the thought process of, you know, are you,

Rob (09:40.584)
No, no, sorry, you, you, you.

Rob (09:53.352)
Mm -hmm.

Danny (10:05.87)
Is there a feeling or almost a story that you're hoping to capture that the viewer would later relate to? Or are you really thinking more about just kind of framing the shot from a visual standpoint? Yeah, just kind of interested in your thought process with that.

Rob (10:22.698)
Yeah, well, I mean, I guess when I'm standing in front of a thing, it's mostly a visual thing. And I can, you know, every now and then I'm looking through the camera and I just get this feeling like, yeah, this is good, this one works. But having said that, it all kind of fits into a greater idea of, you know, I'm not shooting.

Danny (10:31.053)
Mm -hmm.

Rob (10:52.683)
I'm not really documenting what's out there. I'm not shooting, you know, all the box stores and all of that kind of stuff. I'm looking for other stuff that is kind of magical and romantic and, or might be funny, you know, but it has to, I see it all as like one big body of work and it has to fit in with that, you know. So it is a visual thing when I'm looking at a thing and just trying to.

Danny (11:01.646)
Mm -hmm.

Rob (11:21.227)
you know, should I get a bit closer? Should I do this angle or whatever? I'm also looking at, you know, maybe the colors and things like that, but it's also has to fit in. It's like I'm shooting a big movie and it has to fit in with that movie, you know? So it's both, I guess.

Danny (11:41.137)
Gotcha. How do you go about planning one of these road trips? Do you research in advance maybe areas that you've, I don't know, heard about or seen through some other medium that you think will have a lot of subject matter that would be interesting to you?

Rob (12:02.283)
Yeah, sure. So I'll often, you know, I'll, I mean, these days I'll see things on Instagram and think, that looks like that might be quite interesting, you know? And, so, but I've always seen stuff in whatever medium or heard about things. And so when I'm planning a trip, say, you know, like the most recent one I did was I went up to the Pacific Northwest from, from Joshua tree.

Danny (12:09.552)
Mm -hmm.

Rob (12:32.396)
And I will have a few places I want to hit. But the rest of it is just kind of wandering. And I'll have a loose plan. Quite often I'll change that like part way through. But I'll have a few. What I'm really hoping for is to just stumble on things that I had no idea was there, that I couldn't imagine, you know. But it's, so there's a kind of plan. And sometimes I'm just intrigued by the name of a place.

Danny (12:51.312)
Yeah. Sure. Sure.

Rob (13:01.836)
or something, you know. And I never really know if it's going to work or not. Sometimes when I'm out there, I just, if I haven't got anything for a day or two, I'm just thinking, maybe I won't find anything, you know. But generally I do, you know.

Danny (13:15.313)
Hey.

Danny (13:19.411)
Gotcha. Yeah, that I was going to ask you about that, that there must be some periods, you know, where you're going a day or two and just kind of going, man, I, you know, I'm not finding anything here. You know, is this going to be a bust or, you know, how, how long, how long are you out there? Usually.

Rob (13:36.621)
usually a maximum would be a couple of weeks. I think I, the biggest trip I ever did, I think was like 19 days. but more often it's maybe 10 days to two weeks, something like that. it's pretty tiring. it can be expensive, you know, cause I'm staying in, you know, I'm, I'm not that young anymore. And, so, you know, I, I like to stay in a place with a bed and a shower and,

Danny (13:41.362)
Mm -hmm.

Danny (13:50.354)
Okay.

Danny (13:56.147)
Yeah.

Danny (14:01.779)
Me neither.

Yeah, the hostile days are over.

Rob (14:07.212)
So, you know, that's all, yeah, so that all costs money and, you know, gas and all that stuff. So, and then also it can be, I don't know, there can be a period where you're kind of seeing stuff and you're getting inspired or whatever, but, you know, maybe if you go too long, that kind of runs out. I don't know. But it might be nice to just...

Danny (14:14.931)
Sure, sure I can imagine.

Rob (14:36.716)
If I was like super wealthy and also didn't have other commitments or whatever, did just wander for a long time and take my time and stay a few days somewhere. But that's not the way I've been doing it. No, I put in a lot of miles in that period, you know.

Danny (14:43.956)
Yeah.

Danny (14:48.82)
Gotcha.

Danny (14:53.301)
Gotcha, gotcha. From a question regarding kind of the process a little bit, you're out for a couple weeks, you're shooting all these photographs, do you kind of review things every night, maybe update or backup files, or do you kind of do a big dump when you get home before you start that editing process to kind of have a little bit of time away from those shots you've taken so that when you do that photo dump at home,

you kind of get that, you know, reminded of these shots that maybe you've forgotten about or.

Rob (15:26.829)
Well, I get a lot of time because I'm actually shooting on film. And yeah, I shoot with a medium format film camera. I just get 10 shots on a roll. But what I will do is when I, sorry, go ahead.

Danny (15:32.853)
okay, gotcha.

Danny (15:41.622)
Is that, I think, you know what, I'm wondering, I think I might have seen, it might have been your page that I saw. Do you use one of those, it kind of looks like an old timey camera. Do you use one of those or have you?

Rob (15:57.517)
not really. I do, I do have, I think I know what you're talking about. You're talking about like a large.

Danny (16:00.981)
Okay.

Danny (16:05.973)
That's my technical term, old -timey camera. Yeah, there's an English company that has been making a camera that I've been seeing people do some really neat stuff with.

Rob (16:08.717)
You're talking about a large format camera thing, like, you know.

Rob (16:18.094)
but, but no, I, I actually use the camera I have, I've had for more than 25 years. It's a, it's a Mamiya, Mamiya seven, and it kind of looks, it just kind of looks like a big 35 millimeter camera. so it's not, it's not really old time. I mean, it might look that way. It might look that way, I guess. but so, but what I do is when I'll take a shot of something,

Danny (16:26.101)
Okay.

Danny (16:33.494)
Gotcha. Okay. Gotcha.

Danny (16:38.718)
Yeah, yeah.

Rob (16:47.245)
I will also take a picture of that thing on my iPhone. And that's to record what I did. And also, you know, when I'm out on the road, I'll send some shots to my girlfriend and say, Hey, I shot this today or whatever. So I kind of know what, what I've got kind of, sort of, and, and I will actually, you know, I'll carry a little journal and I'll, I'll, you know, make like a little

Danny (16:51.894)
Mm -hmm.

Rob (17:16.012)
very rough sketch of that picture. And I will kind of review it as I go along and say, yeah, I think I've got something. I think I've got two or three or whatever. But I don't really see it until, so, you know, I've been spending, you know, like four months out in Joshua Tree. And that's when I'm shooting in that period. But I don't get this film developed until I get back to New York.

Danny (17:18.264)
Okay.

Danny (17:44.057)
Okay.

Rob (17:44.555)
And so I don't see that stuff, but some of it for like months. It's kind of, it's a strange way of working, I guess.

Danny (17:46.489)
Wow. Yeah, yeah.

Nah, I could see that being kind of neat though, after so much time passes to then finally reveal the efforts of your work.

Rob (17:57.227)
Yeah.

Rob (18:01.419)
And then I get it all developed and I have contact sheets and more often than not, it's really disappointing. It's just because I've got this stuff in my mind. this is a good one. That's good. And I look at it and I'm like, my God, this isn't, you know, but I've kind of got used to that because it's just a, it's a, it's a contact sheet is it's just a, a very basic,

Danny (18:11.257)
Hahaha!

Rob (18:28.395)
Basically, what I'll do is then I'll scan the negatives with a film scanner. And so I've got a digital file, I bring it up on the screen, I'll make a few tweaks and it all kind of comes back to life. And then I'm like, yeah, this is a good one. This is it. But when I first started this whole doing it this way, I would be kind of devastated at times. I mean, I have done, spent all that money all the time and this stuff is just not good at all, you know, but I...

Danny (18:40.026)
Gotcha. Okay.

Danny (18:50.586)
Yeah.

Danny (18:56.858)
Yeah.

Rob (18:57.834)
But it comes back and it comes alive again, you know.

Danny (19:00.826)
Wow, neat. Yeah, I mean, you mentioned the expense of being out there and that was before I knew you were doing it on film. So that's gotta be quite an added, you know, financial element to the whole thing.

Rob (19:12.01)
Yeah, so I don't shoot that much actually. I'm kind of careful. Sometimes I'll stop and look at something, I'll look through the camera and I'm like, is this really interesting? And sometimes I'm like, no. So I just don't take the picture. And then if I can, I'll take maybe one frame of the thing. If I find something that I really am excited about,

you know, I'm going to take more just to make sure I've got it. And then sometimes with the nighttime stuff as well, I'll do more because I'm just kind of guessing the exposures and I'm not really sure if I'm getting it or not. But I'm careful. And also I'm shooting less than I used to because over time you kind of get to know what works or what doesn't.

Danny (19:57.306)
Let's see.

Rob (20:09.449)
and whereas there are things I would shoot more that I don't find as interesting now. So it's kind of strange. I don't shoot all that much. But hopefully I'm getting the good stuff.

Danny (20:19.93)
Gotcha.

Danny (20:24.506)
You know, I'm sure there's a lot of people like me that are amateur photographers that just have that interest in photography. I've always been very interested in it. I'm kind of a gear head as well, like a tech gear head. So I love the technology of new video cameras and drone cameras and just everything you can do with it. Would you recommend in a way,

Rob (20:32.968)
-huh.

Rob (20:44.776)
Yeah.

Danny (20:52.09)
you know, the wannabe photographers out there to try to shoot on film from the standpoint of that you have to think about that shot so much more versus, you know, when you're out there with a digital camera and you can just take a hundred pictures of one subject matter and just keep making setting changes and then see if you ended up luckily getting some.

Rob (21:08.81)
Yeah.

Rob (21:15.85)
Yeah, I don't know about that. I'm not sure that I would advise that. I mean, I just stick with the film camera because it works for me. I like it. I imagine if I was starting today, I'd probably shoot digitally. But if you could try to have that mindset as if you are shooting on film, that might be a good discipline. But I'm not sure. That would be hard to do, I think.

Danny (21:36.794)
Yeah, yeah.

Danny (21:44.41)
Gotcha.

Rob (21:44.747)
But that might be a way to try to think of it. Because the other thing is, you know, I see people shooting and they'll shoot like a ton of one thing. And I just think when you get home and that stuff's on your computer, there's so much stuff to look through, so much editing. It's sort of, it's a lot, you know. But I'm not sure. I'm...

Danny (22:08.282)
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Rob (22:12.458)
Because I haven't been a digital photographer, it's hard for me to say.

Danny (22:19.354)
Gotcha. For somebody who is trying to find their way in photography, I mean, do you have any advice for somebody that's kind of trying to find their style or their format or, because I go through all these different things that I try. You mentioned, you see a lot of people just in New York just shooting tons of things. And I bought myself like a small point and shoot.

Rob (22:45.704)
Mm -hmm.

Danny (22:46.074)
camera to do like street photography with and I found that to be really interesting and but you know I'm kind of all over the place on these different things that I do as opposed to kind of like focusing on one thing and trying to really get good at that. Do you have any advice for somebody on kind of you know how to find their you know their niche or their style in photography?

Rob (23:05.737)
Yeah, I don't know. I think it can take a long time. You know, I think it's a thing that, yeah, maybe you do start out shooting everything and then you sort of, hopefully you can decide, well, this is good and I'm good at this. But I don't know really. I think it can take a long time to be really satisfied with what you're shooting, you know, and I think that...

you might need a lot of patience. But I think that is a, I think if you're trying to make your mark and get noticed, I think it is a good idea to, to maybe kind of specialize in, have some kind of subject instead of a bit of this and bit of that. And then maybe once, once you've done that, maybe then you can add something else. But, but I think that is a common, you know, I sometimes people show me the pictures.

and they're all over the place, like you say, and it's hard to get a handle on it. And I think certainly if you were trying to get noticed or if you had aims to be in a gallery or something like that, they want to know, they want to be able to read you and see what you do and what you're about. I mean, you're a musician, right? And I guess it's probably similar if you were just doing like a ton of

Danny (24:08.25)
Mm -hmm.

Danny (24:27.386)
Yes.

Rob (24:34.088)
different style to be like, what is this band? You know, it's like, so maybe, I don't know. Yeah.

Danny (24:35.162)
Right.

Danny (24:39.258)
Sure, sure. Gotcha. That makes sense. Yeah. Do you have any upcoming trips in the works?

Rob (24:45.801)
No, nothing in the works. So, you know, you never know, there might be something, but we generally spend, you know, like maybe four months after Christmas through to May out in Joshua Tree. And that's when I would do a big trip as well as, you know, local stuff. We might go visit sometime soon -ish.

Danny (25:02.01)
Mm -hmm.

Rob (25:14.664)
when I'd want to get out a day or two and shoot. But no, I'm kind of unusual in that I don't shoot all the time. Before we had the place out there, I would maybe take like one trip in a year where I'm just shooting for maybe a couple of weeks and the rest of the time I'm not. But what I am doing is, so I'm, I sell big prints through some galleries.

Danny (25:31.834)
Okay.

Rob (25:44.745)
but I also go out on the street in Soho in New York on the weekends selling smaller, affordable prints. And so I'm doing that like every week. And so I'm kind of like living with the work and I'm selling it, I'm talking to people and it's, so there's a connection to it. And I'm always thinking about what I'm doing. I want to, so I did a book.

Danny (25:52.186)
Mm -hmm.

Rob (26:13.898)
that you know sold out I did like a thousand of those and I want to do another book so I'll be putting that together with a view to have another book a different book new book so you know in that way I'm I'm doing the work as well but the actual shooting of it you know I I don't do it that often but so I probably won't take a big trip until like after Christmas which I know it's I know it's kind of wild but

Danny (26:22.586)
Okay.

Danny (26:40.73)
Gotcha.

Rob (26:42.889)
But all this stuff, all this ideas about what I might shoot and everything is kind of, it's going on up in my head, ready for that to all come out. Plus I've been doing this thing, and I'm not sure where I'm going with it, but I've been doing this thing where I've started to place things within the landscape. And a lot of that's been kind of around the kind of high desert.

Danny (26:43.162)
No, no.

Danny (26:53.082)
Gotcha. Yeah.

Danny (27:06.81)
Mmm.

Rob (27:12.746)
So where I'm setting things up more and I enjoy it and I think some of it looks good but I'm not sure how much I can sell that stuff or where I'm going with it. But you know, who knows? Yeah, yeah.

Danny (27:23.79)
Yeah, yeah, still figuring that one out. Cool. That's great. I know you live part -time on the East Coast and part -time in Joshua Tree. How did you find your way to settling in Joshua Tree?

Rob (27:36.713)
Well, I've been going out there, you know, like since that very first trip, you know, I spent the first night of that trip in Joshua Tree, actually at the High Desert Motel, which was, you know, affordable place. And so, you know, I've been going out west a lot. And then my girlfriend, who is, you know, long time partner, she's a sculptor and she,

Danny (27:52.602)
Yeah.

Rob (28:06.635)
She used to be working movies, doing art production, and she'd be on the West Coast, East Coast, but she's always had this, both of us have this kind of a fantasy to have a place in the desert. You know, there was a big attraction to us. And then just a few years ago, you know, we were able to start looking at places and we looked for ages online and...

We came out a couple of times, looked around and then this one place came up and it looked just right and we flew out and we did it. But it's been a long time, you know, a fantasy that turned into a reality, you know. And I love it out there, you know, and I probably would spend more time, but you know, my girlfriend's kids and grandkids are...

Danny (28:43.051)
Awesome.

Danny (28:47.947)
Yeah, yeah, that's great.

Danny (29:01.067)
Sure, sure.

Rob (29:01.194)
are here on the East Coast and you know so there's we have to spend time here plus I do this thing of selling in New York as well but who knows in the future but it's but it's I think it's great I love it out there.

Danny (29:15.403)
Yeah, Rob, where's the best places for people to go to see your work, purchase prints, all that stuff?

Rob (29:23.306)
Okay, so I have a website where I sell the smaller prints and it's just my name's robhan .com. My Instagram where I post something pretty much every day is rob .han. And then I sell big prints through a place called Click in, well, I wasn't saying New York, but they've got like 12, it's CLIC, like,

Danny (29:39.179)
Mm -hmm.

Rob (29:52.042)
like chic but with an L. There's a gallery in Stockholm as well. And then Very Very and The Station in Joshua Tree have been selling my small prints too.

Danny (30:05.835)
Wonderful. Yeah, I highly, for anybody listening that hasn't checked out your work, it's really, really great stuff. I mean, it's totally right up my alley of the type of stuff I love. And yeah, like I said, I purchased a nice print from Very Very, and there's quite a few more that I would love to get to kind of round out the collection in the home there. So definitely check out Rob's work. It's really great. I really appreciate your time.

I had to hold myself back from starting to go into like technical photography, you know, stuff, because, you know, like I said, I'm kind of a wannabe photographer, and, you know, it's always great to talk to somebody who, you know, really, you know, knows the stuff, but.

Rob (30:41.099)
Yeah, well...

Rob (30:47.051)
Well, to tell you the truth...

Rob (30:53.195)
Yeah, but you know, Danny, I'm not the most technical guy. And so I probably, I've got like one camera, one lens. It's very simple. And you probably wouldn't learn much about that stuff from me, you know?

Danny (31:06.576)
But at the same time, what I think is so great about that is like, again, because I run into this, just creating even like podcasts where people say, I want to do a podcast. And what they really always ask about is the technical, what microphone do I need to use? And it's like, you can use anything. It has almost no bearing on how this whole thing turns out. And.

Rob (31:25.515)
huh.

Rob (31:29.515)
Bye.

Danny (31:34.416)
In your case, it's like using the tools that you have and learning how to create what you're trying to create. You know, and we see that in music all the time, you know. A great guitar player can take a really cheap guitar and a really cheap amp and make it sound like Stevie Ray Vaughan, you know. And I had a friend who was a guitar player like that. And people would go, how do you get the sound so good? He'd say, tones all in the fingers, you know. So.

Rob (31:53.099)
Yeah.

Rob (32:01.483)
I think...

Danny (32:02.8)
Because it is easy to just buy, well, I need this lens, and now I'm going to buy this lens, instead of just using those tools that you have and learning how to create art with those things.

Rob (32:13.771)
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. You know, it's, it's not really the equipment. It's what's in your mind, you know, it's that that's where it's coming from, you know,

Danny (32:23.152)
Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. Rob, thank you so much for taking time to be on the show. I really, really appreciate it. I really love your work, so keep it up. And yeah, I'd love to meet you in person one afternoon. I'm sure we'll bump into each other at an event or something out there.

Rob (32:33.579)
Yeah, thanks so much.

I was just going to say that, you know, I'll get in touch when I'm back out there and it'd be great to meet up. All right, thanks, Danny.

Danny (32:43.632)
Yeah. Thank you so much.