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Welcome to the Sustainability in Motion podcast, brought to you by ED4S. Our focus is on the fast-evolving world of sustainability, helping the business community understand and address environmental and social challenges.
I’m Matt Orsagh, Chief Content Officer at ED4S.
And I’m Nawar Alsaadi, Founder and CEO of Kanata Advisors, as well as Chief Adviser to ED4S.
Today, we’ll be exploring ESG from a legal perspective, focusing on training in-house counsel and boards to manage ESG risks and seize opportunities. Joining us is Christine Uri, Founder of ESG for In-House Counsel.
Matt: Christine, thanks for being here.
Christine: My pleasure, Matt. I’m excited to discuss how in-house legal teams are navigating these challenges.
Matt: Before diving into the big questions, could you share a bit about your background and journey?
Christine: Of course! I’m a lawyer with 20 years of experience—10 years in a law firm and another 10 in-house at ENGIE, a major energy company. While there, I served as Chief Legal Officer and Chief Sustainability Officer, covering areas like carbon, water, waste, human rights, and ethics. In 2020, I launched my own venture, advising general counsels on ESG strategies that align with client and investor expectations.
Matt: That’s quite a succinct bio—you may win the award for brevity!
Christine: (Laughs) Well, the audience isn’t here to hear about me.
Matt: True! Let’s dive in. There’s often a tension between policymakers demanding more robust sustainability metrics and corporations overwhelmed by reporting requirements. Given your experience, where do you see the balance between these competing demands?
Christine: That’s a great question. ESG reporting originated with investors wanting data on non-financial factors—environmental, social, and governance metrics—to guide better investment decisions. Companies responded, but without standardized formats, making comparisons difficult. This is where regulators, particularly in Europe, stepped in. For example, the Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive (CSRD) imposes comprehensive requirements, covering 13 topics with potentially over 1,000 data points.
While this addresses investor needs, it’s far more complex than many anticipated, leaving companies—both those directly subject to the CSRD and their downstream suppliers—struggling to comply.
Nawar: Speaking of reporting, sustainability metrics are often managed by different departments—finance, legal, or sustainability—depending on the company. Where do you think ESG reporting should sit?
Christine: There’s no universal answer; it varies by company structure and leadership dynamics. However, a dedicated Chief Sustainability Officer (CSO) can be effective, provided they have cross-departmental support to avoid silos. Increasingly, CFOs are taking the lead, given the integration of ESG with financial reporting.
From a legal perspective, all legal teams need a baseline awareness of ESG to prevent risks like greenwashing or non-compliance. Some legal departments—about 10-15%—take on leadership roles in ESG, a trend likely to grow with evolving regulations.
Matt: Let’s discuss your concept of minimum viable reporting for ESG. Can you elaborate on that?
Christine: Sure! For mid-market companies, ESG reporting can feel daunting. Some either avoid it altogether or overextend by producing exhaustive reports they can’t sustain. My approach is to encourage scaled-back, focused reporting—perhaps 10 pages—highlighting key actions, risks, and priorities. This helps companies take ownership of their narrative without being overwhelmed.
Nawar: That resonates. Investors often value concise, impactful reporting over glossy, lengthy reports.
Christine: Exactly. Effective reporting is about clarity, consistency, and repeatability. Overcomplicating it diverts resources from actual ESG progress.
Matt: On the legal front, we’re seeing an uptick in climate litigation. Where do you think this is heading, and how should companies prepare?
Christine: Climate litigation is growing as companies disclose more about their environmental commitments. Activist litigants are also becoming more strategic. To mitigate risks, companies should thoroughly vet public statements and establish robust review processes to avoid claims of greenwashing or misrepresentation.
Nawar: If you had a magic wand to change one thing in the ESG landscape, what would it be?
Christine: I’d wish for companies to universally accept that ESG is non-negotiable—moving past resistance to proactive engagement.
Matt: Looking ahead, what trends should companies and investors prepare for?
Christine: Two key trends:
Matt: Thanks, Christine. Your insights are invaluable.
Christine: Thank you for having me.
Matt: That wraps up this episode of Sustainability in Motion. To learn more, visit us at ED4S.org or connect with us on LinkedIn. Take care!
