What if the "problem team member or leader" isn't the problem at all—but a symptom of a system protecting itself from the truth?
In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Nathalie Martinek, a former cancer researcher who discovered unsettling parallels between tumor metastasis and toxic workplace behavior. After experiencing a carcinogenic work environment herself, Nathalie hung up her lab coat to study what she calls "the human lab"—how good people become participants in dysfunctional systems, often without realizing it.
The Big Questions We Tackle:
What's the difference between psychological safety and a toxic workplace? Nathalie breaks down how teams can feel safe while existing in wider systems that aren't—and why the buffer won't last forever.
How does scapegoating actually work? Unlike bullying (which is personal), scapegoating is systemic—the organization turns on someone to avoid looking at itself. And yes, entire teams can become scapegoats too.
Are narcissistic leaders born or made? Nathalie challenges us to look at our own narcissistic traits and how low-trust environments bring out self-protective behaviors in all of us. The question isn't just "who's the narcissist"—it's "how am I participating?"
Can toxic cultures change? Only if people are willing to see their own contribution to the problem.
What You Can Do Right Now
Don't take their word for it. Watch if what leaders say matches what they do—that's how you know if you're in a trustworthy environment.
Preserve your integrity, not your honesty. You don't owe toxic systems your truth. Sometimes staying silent about certain things is self-preservation.
Face your trigger points. That tricky person? They're going to show up at every job until you learn what they're teaching you about yourself.
Recognize the pattern. If someone's blocking your moves, recruiting allies against you, or giving you impossible assignments designed for failure—you're likely being scapegoated. Get out.
For Gen Z: Don't believe everything you're told about workplace culture. See for yourself. Be compliant without being exploited. And remember: work doesn't have to fulfill your purpose—it can just be a place you show up and do good work.
Connect with Nathalie
Website: www.drnataliemartinek.com
Books: The Scapegoating at Work (ebook), The Little Book of Assertiveness
More Resources
