In this powerful episode of Warden’s Watch, Pennsylvania Game Wardens Phil Bietsch & TJ Knash share the story of a career-defining poaching case tied to the tragic death of fellow officer David Grove on Veteran’s Day 2010. From building trust to securing confessions, this case is a masterclass in investigative work and emotional resilience. Listen now to hear how justice was served, and a legacy honored.
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Here’s what we discuss:
· Phil and TJ were classmates at the Ross Leffler School of Conservation
· Working as neighboring officers for four years, they’ve developed a strong investigative partnership
· Emphasis on teamwork, rhythm in interviews, and rapport-building
· Ryan Laumann is a known habitual game law offender
· The case ties back to the tragic death of Game Warden Dave Grove in 2010, who was murdered by Chris Johnson during a poaching incident
· Laumann was a passenger in the vehicle
· Laumann “just went home.”
· Johnson is now on death row
· Equipment and training were improved
· Laumann received a five-year license revocation
· A tip from a former violator turned informant via Operation Game Thief
· “I got away with it once, I can do it again.”
· TJ took the lead
· Keeping emotions in check
· “Take your time.”
· Officers conducted surveillance near Laumann’s residence
· Multiple deer carcasses, gut piles, and antlers
· Officers used rapport and strategic interviewing to gain Laumann’s trust
· Jeff Baile’s interview and interrogation techniques were critical
· Allowing the suspect to tell their version of the story
· Laumann eventually confesses to killing multiple deer
· From a good case to a great case
· “Rapport is the foundation of everything.”
· Laumann was charged with:
3 counts of illegal deer
3 tagging violations
3 counts of scattering high-risk parts
1 over-the-bag-limit charge
· Final penalties: 5-year hunting license revocation and $2,800 in fines
Credits
Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores
Producer: Jay Ammann
Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett
Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches
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